Narnia

This is a post where people can share information about "The Chronicles of Narnia".

I think I know who the two main people who will be chatting on this forum will be. ;D

A really fun thing to do is look up the cast for the Narnia movies. What you find can be hilarious.

I've read all the books and watched all the movies that they have come out with yet :)

like.. ahem not to mention any names… praps some sort of Bible Bee junior person…. ;)

Exactly. :D lol

Who? ME????????!!!!!!!!!! :) I am TOTALLY ONE OF THE MAIN PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO CHAT ON THIS BLOG!!!!!!!! Great Idea! ;)

Haha, LOL :) Totally me!

Guys, have you heard of The Lion's Call? Ok, here are my favorite Narnia websites:
www.thelionscall.com (I'm Mariah, Knight of the Prince on there)
www.spareoom.net (I use it mainly for avatars)

Yeah, I wonder who that would be…there are a lot of Juniors on here…hey, I don't suppose you were thinking about me, were you?! LOL :)

I think it's you, who's the other? :)

you?

Umm…maybe the two people with Narnia profile pictures? :)

Yeah….that's what I was thinkin'……hum. :)

Who 's everyones favorite Narnia character? I'm still deciding.

Depends on what book… But I've always liked Edmund.

I can't say I'm a Narnia fan, and that is for one reason and one reason only. The Theology in some of the books is WAY off.

Another thing I have a problem with, although it's not something I'd "knock points off" for, is how he used Greek and Roman Mythology (and a few others) for some of his characters (i.e. faun, centaur, etc.).

I think I like Peter the best.

I like Susan the best! I wonder what BBJ12's favorite is. :) LOL

I agree that some of his theology is off, like in the Last Battle, with Emeth, he made out that if you're sincere, you'll get into heaven no matter what you believe. That's totally wrong, as Jesus said, I am the Way the Truth, and the Life, no man comes to the father EXCEPT through me. Not through any other door just because you're "sincere".

But the centaurs and fauns are welcome for me, after all, it IS set in another universe, so we can take that.

yeah, the theology in The Last Battle got way screwed up.

Reepicheep is my favorite!

Okay, it's kind of creepy that somebody made this thread today, because this past week I've been reading through all the Narnia books!!!
Reepicheep is my favorite, too, besides Aslan (from the books). But I don't know if Aslan really counts as a favorite character. :-)
And, yes, the theology is kind of weird, especially in The Last Battle.

So would any of you be willing to call C. S. Lewis a heretic, since he's demonstrated himself to be a universalist in both Narnia and other works?

The portrayal of Emeth in The Last Battle does appear to promote the idea of universalism - or at least that other ways besides Jesus Christ can get one to heaven.

However, if you read Emeth's story closely, this is not at all what is portrayed.

Who is Emeth? He is a young soldier of Tehishbaan. All his life, he has grown up learning of and hearing of Tash. He has been taught that Tash is the name of God and that all the highest, best, and good things come from Tash. He desires only good and right. He seeks the way of righteousness. Notice how he abhors all deception, scheming, and the profanity of combining the name of the one he believes to be a demon with the one he believes to be God. He was enraged at how the Tarkaan mocked this one. His great desire of his life is to look upon the face of the personification of all that is most good and righteous. He was eager to do so even if it meant death. The moment he saw the Lion, he instantly recognized that THIS was the personification of all righteousness and goodness. Before, his imagination and his upbringing put the wrong name and form in his mind. The second he saw the Lion, he said, "It is better to see the Lion and die than to be Tisroc of the world and live and not have seen him."

Now we come to the words of the Lion: "Child, all the service that thou hast done to Tash, I account as service done to me….Not because he and I are one, but because we are opposites, I take to me the services which thou hast done to him. For I and he are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him. Therefore if any man swear by Tash and keep his oath for his oath's sake, it is by me that he has truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him. And if any man do a cruelty in my name, then, though he says the name Aslan, it is Tash whom he serves and by Tash his deed is accepted…unless thy desire had been for me thou wouldst not have sought so long and so truly. For all find what they truly seek."

Because Emeth was walking in the way of righteousness, seeking an intimate relationship with Aslan (even though he did not know him as Aslan but by the name "Tash"), he was not walking in the service of Tash. No one can do any good except by the Spirit of God within him - and the fact that Emeth did good shows how Aslan was leading him and drawing him to Himself.

Scripture speaks on this point as well: "Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say unto me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:21-23). Just because one says the Name does not mean that he is IN the name - and just because one does not say the name does not mean that he is not in the name.

The same thing is illustrated in Matthew 25:
"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

The deeds of these people showed whether or not they were truly in the Name. I believe that all that Lewis was trying to illustrate with Emeth is the point illustrated in these words of Jesus Christ. YES - it is 100% true that no man comes to the Father but by Jesus Christ. However, coming to Father through Jesus Christ does not always look like we think it does! It is not ONLY our American mindset of "saying the prayer" or "saying the name of Jesus." Many of those who have never even heard the name Jesus HAVE come to the Father BY HIM - and many do so today.

Do you doubt me on that point? Consider the patriarchs of the Old Testament: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Noah, David, Moses, Isaiah, Daniel, and so on. Consider the other lesser-known Godly men and women of the Old Testament. Not one of them ever heard or knew the name of Jesus! However, they STILL came to the Father through Jesus! This shows that coming to Father through Jesus does not always look like we think it does. There are many in the world today who have not heard the name of Jesus but still come to Father through Him. Perhaps they know Him by another name - or perhaps they know only that there must be a Savior, or a Redeemer, or someone to "go between" them and the Father, or a Creator - or something else. They come to Father through Christ!

This does not in ANY WAY mean that all come to Father through Christ no matter who they are. No - most do not. Most choose the broad way that leads to destruction. However, some do - and we cannot always (or even most of the time) judge who has come through Christ and who has not. That is Father's jurisdiction.

I believe that this is all that Lewis was trying to emphasize with Emeth. Emeth WAS seeking Aslan, even though he did not know it. He was seeking truth, righteousness, and salvation - and he was living, as it were, "abiding in Aslan." I think Lewis makes a powerful point in this story, indicating that "Aslan's country" is not JUST for Narnians - the Calormenes are capable of entering it through Him as well. This is rather important since excluding all Calormenes from Aslan's Country would seem to teach that the Kingdom of Heaven is only for certain people groups (such as, only for the Jews).

Furthermore, if Lewis was trying to teach that there are other ways into heaven besides Jesus (or Aslan), then ALL Calormenes should have been allowed into Aslan's Country - or at least more of them. Besides that, Aslan should not have met Emeth and told Emeth that Emeth was coming in THROUGH HIMSELF and no other. No one should have disappeared into Aslan's shadow in that case! It seems clear that Lewis was NOT contradicting the Biblical teaching that there is only one way to the Father. Emeth was one very notable exception for a Calormene "Christian" (as it were) because Emeth was very, very different. If it was only "sincerity" alone that Lewis was trying to say got people into heaven, then many other Calormenes ought to have made it as well. No, Emeth was the exception, not the rule, because something was different about Emeth - he WAS seeking Aslan. He DID enter Aslan's Country through Aslan and through no other way.

Very great and well-thought-out points, Navah, but I have to point out one thing. I think that what C. S. Lewis said was wrong because of Acts 4:12:

"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

All of what you said made very good sense, but the Bible makes it clear that no man can be saved without the name of Jesus, even if they follow exactly what He taught. But also, it is impossible for a person to live actually righteously without the Bible telling them how to, and therefore leading them to Jesus. No one will follow righteousness unless God changes his heart by the preaching of the Word of God. Romans 10:14:

"How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?"

No one will truly follow righteousness without hearing the preaching of the Word of God. Without preaching, a person will always follow the wrong god. The hypothetical situation suggested in The Last Battle is an impossible one. A person who has not heard of God cannot follow His commands, because the natural human heart will do everything it can to follow something other than God which will not hold it accountable.

Was C. S. Lewis a heretic? Depends on what he believed personally. I don't think I can say that he wasn't a heretic, but I don't feel right saying that he was. (Hey, I like his books!) It all depends on what he truly believed.

I have to disagree with my brother that you had good points. I don't think your points are valid. SBG brought up the verse I was thinking of: Acts 4:12. It doesn't matter if someone thinks they're worshiping the one true God. If they don't call Him by the Name(s) revealed in His Word, and they don't worship Him in the ways He has prescribed, they're not worshiping Him, but a false God.

You said, "Emeth WAS seeking Aslan, even though he did not know it. He was seeking truth, righteousness, and salvation…" The problem with this is that NO ONE seeks the true God naturally. The Bible says, "There is no one who seeks God."

Do you believe that an African native, if he is worshiping his tribal god in all sincerity and earnestness and he tries to do what he thinks is right, do you believe God will accept that as worship to Himself? If so, that is universalism. God sees all of our righteous deeds as filthy rags; He doesn't accept our "good works" even if they ARE directed toward His Name, much less if they're directed toward a false god.

All mankind is condemned at conception because of Adam's sin. No one is born innocent. No one seeks God. Everyone therefore lives a natural life of sin, and therefore everyone deserves hell. No one worships the true God under any name, until His soul is converted by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, God could never accept worship from anyone who is supposedly worshiping Him under another name. It's blasphemy and a terrible stench in His nostrils. He hates it. Only through Christ can we offer true worship to Him.

There are people who sought God all their life, yet never had a name for what they sought. Then someone tells them about Jesus and they realize that He is what they have been looking for. They accept Jesus and began to follow Him. I think this is what C.S. Lewis was trying to portray.

Well, that is logical, but the problem is, no one seeks after God. (Romans 3:10-12) That hypothetical situation could make sense except for this point. Good arguments for C. S. Lewis, but it is impossible to seek after God without God first changing your heart by the preaching of the Word. Yes, if a person was seeking after God, but did not have a name for Him, and then found what His name was, he could be saved. But this situation is impossible. Also, this doesn't seem to be what C. S. Lewis is saying. In the book, Emeth has already made it to "heaven," but is wondering why he is there since he followed Tash, not Aslan. Then Aslan tells him that his acts, though in Tash's name, were really done for Aslan, since they were what Aslan would have told him to do, not Tash. But, as I said before, the problem with that is that if you do not know Jesus' name, and therefore what He taught, in life, you will not be saved. That is why I cannot be sure that C. S. Lewis did not believe heresy in this area. He may not have, but he may have.

I have to go. try and answer you tomorrow. :)

See ya then! :D

I think that as soon as he realized that Aslan was the way to heaven, he accepted him into his heart. Had the world not been ending he would have served him in his life. I think C.S. Lewis was saying that it is never too late for anyone to accept Jesus and go to heaven(like the thief on the cross).

No.

very clear answer :)

That is possible, SoulWinner, but it doesn't seem like that is what he was trying to get across–if so, he probably would have written the book differently to make it more clear that he was doing that. It really seems like he is saying that if a person follows what God has commanded, even if he doesn't know that God commanded it, he will make it to heaven and will be commended. But that is impossible, as I said before. No one can follow God's commands without following God, and by that name. The human heart does whatever it can to disobey its conscience, which tells it what God's law is, and which pricks it whenever it disobeys that law. It hates the law written on its heart, and will never "accidentally" or "purposefully" follow it without hearing the gospel through the preaching of the Word and God regenerating his heart. C. S. Lewis seems to indicate that someone can.

@aidan B.–What are you saying "no" to in COS's comment? Which part? :)

I have realized that I probably shouldn't have said anything, because I haven't read Last Battle since last summer.I will be more sure of my views on this subject once I re-read the book.:)

So we all need to hang out and watch all the NARNIA movies togethers YEA BUDDY

What is your favorite Narnia book or movie? Mine is either "The Horse and His Boy" or "Prince Caspian" (both book and movie)

In spite of the controversial part, my favorite Narnia book is The Last Battle. :)

I really like The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe.

"No" to would I call C.S. Lewis a heretic.

I like either TVOTDT or THAHB best.

Reepicheep and Lucy

My favorite Narnia characters are Susan and Aslan.

I've heard that C. S. Lewis denied God…is that true?

I've never read any of his books, or really done any research about him, so I know close to nothing about him….

Um, I don't know about that, but as far as I know he didn't.

@Favorite Character Posts~ My favorite character is Reepicheep. Always will be.

C.S. Lewis was an atheist when he was young, that is, before his conversion. Is that what you are talking about?

Good choice, I think I might have to choose the same thing. Maybe Peter though.

I don't think he did that. I have enjoyed reading the Narnia series and the first two books of the Space Trilogy. They seem to be good books and teach about God. He seems to like to use other "worlds" to potray things.They seem to be good books and teach about God so I would doubt that he would deny him.

C.S. Lewis enjoyed using allegories for his stories. In the Chronicles of Narnia, you can see biblical parallels. Having done some research on C.S. Lewis' life, he denied that there was a God when his beloved father died (C.S. Lewis wasn't a Christian then). Does that answer any of your questions?

Sorry I haven't been on in forever…I used up my time for computer for a couple of days so I couldn't get on.
OK: My favorite character: Aslan, Lucy, Susan, Reepicheep
Favorite Book: LWW, VDT

@Christ is Lord and Nevah - I LOVE YOUR PICTURES!!!!!!!! i need to change mine.

Have y'all missed me? :) LOL jk

I missed you!
According to an earlier post, I realized that I made a slight mistake.
C.S. Lewis' mother died, not his father. Just wanted to clear that up.