TalithaCumorah

Hi, everyone! Introductions…hmm, what to say?

There are five in my family; my parents, an older brother (currently the only other one who uses Memverse), and a younger sister. I'm like most teens, and can't wait to be able to drive! Personality-wise, I'm totally a nerd.

Random facts:
-One of my favorite things is music; playing instruments, singing, listening to it…everything.
-I am a bookworm. Majorly. (In addition to starting to use Memverse, one of the things I have planned for the summer is a gigantic reading list…)
-I'm a Rebelutionary. Anyone else? If you haven't heard of it, the twin brothers have a website (www.therebelution.com) as well as a couple of books (Do Hard Things, Start Here) that I would REALLY recommend checking out.

On a more serious note, I have committed my life entirely to Christ, and will serve him wherever he calls me to. I love to study the scriptures, and try to study at least a little every day. Also, He has called me to be in some kind of mission work in the future. Whether it be in another country or nearer home, large-scale or small, and as my life's work or just sharing with co-workers, I'm excited about being called to share with those who haven't heard.

Finally, about my name… First off, it's not actually my name, it's a pseudonym. :) But the first part, Talitha, is from Mark, where Jesus raises Jairus' daughter from the dead. It isn't a name, necessarily, but it's pretty. My brother suggested following it up with "cumi," since in the text, Jesus says, "Talitha cumi," but since cumi is a verb ("arise"), I thought that would be odd. So, he came up with Cumorah, which we liked, because it starts the same way as "cumi"…anyway. As for Cumorah, it's the name of a place in the Book of Mormon.

A question for all of you guys… I'm homeschooled. And I know I'm not the only one, because some of you have said so on other posts. But if you don't mind saying again, who else is? I'm just curious. :)

In Christ,
TalithaCumorah

I'm homeschooled, too.
Just a question. Why did you use the name of a place in the Book of Mormon for your username?

I am too, and I LOVE IT!! More time to spend with your family, read books, memorize verses, and post on forums! ;-) Just kidding about the last one, but seriously, homeschooling is great!

Yes, why the Book of Mormon, and not the Koran or the Talmud?

I'm homeschooled, too, and I love it! :)

@TooAwesomeForAlgebra - I totally agree about your name!!!!!!!! :) And about the other stuff…

@TooAwesomeForAlgebra - I take it you don't like Algebra? :-)

@Octavius and Wretched Man - To answer your question, I used a name from the Book of Mormon because I believe in it. I believe that it is scripture, inspired by God. Not that it's better than the Bible, or replaces it entirely–no, not by any means! But I do believe that it is the inspired word of God.

But I have to ask, Wretched Man… what you said makes it sound like you put the Book of Mormon on the same level as the Koran or the Talmud. Is that how you meant it, or was I interpreting it wrong?

I may have unintentionally started a controversy by mentioning the Book of Mormon…sorry…

I may have unintentionally started a controversy by mentioning the Book of Mormon...sorry...

Yeah, I don't think you know what you've gotten yourself into.

Yes, @TalithaCumorah, you interpreted my post correctly.

I do put the Koran, the Book of Mormon, the Talmud, the Mahabharata (or Bhagavad Gita), and other primary texts of false religions all on the same level. They are inspired texts, but not inspired by the one and ONLY God of the universe, YAHWEH. They are inspired by Satan, the greatest enemy of God and counterfeiter of Christianity.

I know this will come across as harsh, but I do not give wiggle room to religions that disguise themselves as Christianity, but are sending millions to hell. Mormonism is a counterfeit of true Christianity, and should have NO place beside the one true Bible that is the ONLY God-inspired text in existence – not the Book of Mormon, not the Pearl of Great Price, not the American Constitution, and certainly not the Mormon-tainted KJV edition of the Bible.

I beg and plead to you to abandon the course you have taken, whether on your own or along with your family. Your "religion" teaches polytheism, and that all of us can attain to being a "god" someday. It teaches that YAHWEH and Jesus Christ are created beings. It does not teach the atoning work of Christ ON THE CROSS (not in the Garden of Gethsemane!). It teaches multiple "heavens," and almost a universal salvation. It teaches a purgatory-type existence beyond this life. It teaches NO Trinity of one God, three Persons. And, worse than all, it teaches a works-based salvation, where "we do our best and Jesus does the rest."

Our justification is by grace ALONE through faith ALONE in Jesus Christ ALONE. We find these truths in the Holy Bible ALONE, and ALL is done for God's glory ALONE.

Anything else are abominable heresies that deceive their followers into believing they are still acceptable to God, yet are sending them to hell.

I know others may think a more touchy-feely approach might serve better to help you see the light; but Jesus never put up with the false religion of the Scribes and Pharisees, and as His follower, I will never put up with any attempts to lump our beloved Lord and His Word with things of Satan.

I leave you with the Apostle Paul's clear take on Joseph Smith's own record of how he came up with the Book of Mormon:

Galatians 1:8-9 –

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

I pray that the Holy Spirit will open your eyes to the truth of the gospel. Jesus is the ONLY way to the Father. Though your "religion" may use the same terms, they do not have the true Biblical meaning behind them. Abandon your works! Fall on Christ, and Him alone!

I'm homeschooled!!! And absolutely love it :D

Welcome!
Even though I don't agree with you on the book of Mormon, it's great that you're here and that you're using memverse to hide God's word in your heart.
What Bible verses are you learning? (And what instruments do you play? - I'm a music person too:-))

I hate to say this, because I hate sounding harsh, but this NEEDS to be pointed out. Did you read WM's post? Mormonism is a HERESY. It tries to disguise itself and blur the lines between it and Christianity, but it is a cult that follows totally heretical doctrines, some of which Wretched Man showed above. It's not that we just "don't agree on the Book of Mormon thing," but Mormonism is a completely different religion than Christianity, and a false one. It teaches that God the Father and Jesus Christ are created, that we can become gods if we are good enough here on earth, and that we are saved by our works. It also says that almost everyone will make it to heaven (except for radical ex-Mormons), and that there are three levels of heaven to which you can go. Jesus and Lucifer are supposedly brothers, and we are all supposedly literal offspring of God the Father.

Many of these things are outright ridiculous or just plain heresy. Sure, we can be friends with a Mormon, but not without continually telling them the truth of Scripture! If a Mormon stays a Mormon, I'm sorry, he's going to hell. This is not just a small point we disagree on, but we hold an entirely different belief system. We cannot let Mormons blur the lines. If they believe what they say they believe, they are NOT Christians!

Again, I hate to sound harsh, but false teaching must be shown for what it truly is! TalithaCumorah, please do not tell people you are a Christian unless you become one, which I hope you will. The Bible totally contradicts the Book of Mormon, and they cannot be reconciled. Please follow what true Scripture says–repent of your sins and trust in Jesus Christ alone, not yourself, for your salvation.

@Wretched Man - Pretty much all of what you said about the Mormons' beliefs is true. However, I’m not a Mormon (sorry for the confusion on that!), and I agree with you that they have a lot of false beliefs. I don’t believe in polytheism, works-based salvation, men becoming gods, or that Jesus was created. (By the way, have you read the Book of Mormon? If so, you would find that those things aren’t taught there.) I do believe that Jesus died for our sins, that He is God and part of the Trinity, and that His death on the cross is the only means by which we can have salvation. These things are taught in the Book of Mormon. It is another witness of Jesus Christ, the same as the Bible.

@SavedByGrace - See what I said above to WM. And what you said about the Book of Mormon contradicting the Bible? Actually, there have been many people (who did not believe in the BOM, might I add) who have read it with the intent to find contradictions and false doctrines–and they couldn't find any!

You said, "trust in Jesus Christ alone, not yourself, for your salvation." Rest assured, I do trust in Jesus Christ, and know that He's the only salvation.

@Jo B - Bible verses… Passages: Psalm 1, Lam. 3:22-23, Eph. 6:10-18 and Jeremiah 1:4-9. Single verses: 1 Cor 10:13, Luke 9:62, Isa 55:8, and John 3:16, among others. One of my future goals is to memorize all of 1st John.

Oh cool! It's always fun to find another music person. :-) My main instrument is the violin, but I know some piano and guitar, and am beginning to learn some viola.

How can you say that youur not a mormon, but you read their "sacred" teachings? The Book of Mormon states that the Catholic Church took away most parts of the Bible and that it cannot be trusted as the true translation(1 Nephi 13:26b,27, I think). The founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith, said that God was once a man and that males can become gods! That doesn't line up with scripture!

(P.S. We should probably take this to the Theology discussions. Who wants to start a new topic?)

@SavedByGrace <blockquote>Did you read WM's post? </blockquote>

Yes - I thought he already covered everything.

It's not that we just "don't agree on the Book of Mormon thing," but Mormonism is a completely different religion than Christianity, and a false one.

This is not just a small point we disagree on, but we hold an entirely different belief system.

Must have missed something there. Did I say it was a minor point?!
I thought I just plain disagreed. But I also acknowledged that Talitha chose to learn Bible verses on memverse, rather than finding the equivalent for the book of Mormon. And I do think that's great. Don't you?

@Talitha - great Bible verse choices! I hadn't got the Lam ones on my 'to do' list, but think I may have to add them! Maybe Isaiah 55 too - the whole chapter is great:-) I think a group of people memorised 1st John a year ago so you may find some encouragement if you look it up on the blog. I'm learning 1 Peter - my first attempt at learning a book, and it's been a huge blessing - it's amazing how God uses his word to challenge us and teach us when we meditate on it:-).

Violin - cool! What kind of music do you play on it? Classical, folk, Christian? I'd love to learn a stringed instrument. I used to play a variety of woodwind instruments and I simply don't have the puff for them anymore:-(. But my main instrument is piano and I love it. I play mostly classical and Christian music, including playing for worship at church. Oh, I and I dabble with guitar too:-)

Must have missed something there. Did I say it was a minor point?! I thought I just plain disagreed. But I also acknowledged that Talitha chose to learn Bible verses on memverse, rather than finding the equivalent for the book of Mormon. And I do think that's great. Don't you?

A Mormon can choose to learn all the Bible verses they want, but they're still going to Hell. Now, Talithah doesn't seem to be a Mormon, but if she was, wouldn't it be more important to get her out of the false religion than to congratulate her for memorizing Scripture? Mormons would likely have a wrong motive for memorizing verses–that it would gain them a better acceptance with God, or that it was another work that will get them on their way to the highest place in heaven. It's like congratulating a Catholic or Jehovah's Witness because they walked an old lady across the street.

I don't really understand why one would believe in the Book of Mormon and not be a Mormon. That's like an atheist believing that God inspired the Bible. But anyway, I found an article that shows discrepancies in Mormonism and the Book of Mormon itself. In many parts, it is just plain illogical. Here is the address:

http://contenderministries.org/mormonism/bomproblems.php

There may be few, if any, obvious contradictions to the Bible in the Book of Mormon, but there are still some overall principles that just don't seem to fit. I hope this helps.

Perhaps the inconsistencies between the Bible and the Book of Mormon are not present in the Mormon translation of the Bible.

Firstly, I think we share the same long term desire - to see others come to faith in Christ.

How did you become a Christian? Was it by someone telling you "you're wrong" or was it by reading the truth from the Creator himself? Personally, I have faith in God's Word to change lives and hearts. Isn't that one of the reasons for memorising Scripture - so we can share God's word? So I love to hear people are reading the Bible and seek to encourage that.:-)

Ps - I don't think I've quite got the hang of the technical side of quoting! Sorry!

Jo B, though I'd like to think the best of Talitha, I am personally going to need to more thoroughly hear exactly what her beliefs are before I call her a Christian. Saying you believe that the Book of Mormon is the Word of God… well, that's coming extremely close to heresy. How exactly do you believe a person is saved, TalithaCumorah? How do you claim that you were saved?

@ Talitha: Do you agree with statements in the Book of Mormon such as 2 Nephi 25:23b: "it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do." Isn't that in direct contradiction with Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace we have been saved through faith and this NOT OF YOURSELVES, it is the GIFT of God, NOT BY WORKS, so that no one can boast" ?

(everybody- sorry for the delay in replying… I was at camp.)

@Jo B- " it's amazing how God uses his word to challenge us and teach us when we meditate on it:-)." Soooo true. Often He'll bring a scripture verse to mind at just the right time.

I'll have to look up the 1st John thing on the blog! Thanks!

I mostly play classical, but also have learned some violin parts in contemporary Christian songs…and I can fiddle up a tune or two… :)

That's awesome that you play the piano. It's such an interesting instrument, and so different from all the others. How long have you been playing?

@ChiefOfSinners- My family and I were just discussing that verse the other night, and it doesn't mean what it seems like it means…however, I can't remember the explanation for it! (it might have had something to do with the context of the verse, maybe? not sure…) And I'm not well-studied enough to know this for sure, with a scholarly answer and explanation for everything, but I would venture to say that if you looked at what the whole BOM had to say about grace and works, you would find that it does agree with the Bible.

But everybody…. I really, really didn't intend to start an argument. This is getting way too complicated, and there are so many things to respond to…and frankly, I am in over my head on this. So, if you guys would comply, I really just want to end this discussion. If you like, you can keep on posting objections to the BOM, but I probably won't reply back. K? Thank you.

In Christ,
TalithaCumorah

I still don't understand how the Book of Mormon is the inspired Word of God, if it was written by a man who practiced polygamy and believed that he was a god and that only mormon men could become god's. I don't personally own the Book of Mormon, so I can't find a place where it contradicts the Bible(though i'm sure said place exists). I respect the fact that you will no longer be commenting on this topic and wish you a Happy Easter!

(Yes, I know I said I'd probably not reply back… but it was a 'probably', which means that I still can if I choose, right?)

@SoulWinner- Ok, there were several untrue statements in what you said (though many people believe them, so I'm not surprised that you also believe that they're true)….

"…if it was written by a man who…" First of all, he didn't write it. He translated it.

"…a man who practiced polygamy and believed that he was a god and that only mormon men could become god's" He didn't, he didn't, aaand he didn't. Many of the false doctrines associated with Joseph Smith were actually begun by Brigham Young, such as polygamy and the "men becoming gods" teaching. Joseph never practiced polygamy, nor was he ever in favor of it.

"…I can't find a place where it contradicts the Bible(though i'm sure said place exists)." …Or maybe the "said place" doesn't exist. I don't believe there are any contradictions, though at a first glance it may seem that way sometimes. (Look at it this way…at first glance, sometimes it seems that there are inconsistencies and contradictions within the Bible! But on closer examination, they are resolved.)

And what was that about a happy… Easter…? You're a bit late, buddy.

Or else super early. :)

Welcome to Memverse!!! I hope you like it. It's really been a blessing to me. I'm very thankful for such a wonderful tool!
~Emily

It was a little bit of wordplay since mormons also don't believethat Jesus died for everyones sins.

Ohhhhh, okay. I get it now. (But should I say again that I'm not a Mormon?)

And thanks, Emily!

I don't believe there are any contradictions, though at a first glance it may seem that way sometimes. (Look at it this way...at first glance, sometimes it seems that there are inconsistencies and contradictions within the Bible! But on closer examination, they are resolved.)

But when you've got a religion that says 1. that God the Father is not the only true God, and that there have been many before Him; 2. that He lives on the planet Kolab with many wives who He relates with to produce "spirit babies"; 3. that Jesus and Satan and all of mankind are included in these "spirit babies," and thus we are all brothers and sisters and children of God--and therefore Jesus is not one with God, and neither is the Holy Spirit, destroying the doctrine of the Trinity 4. that Jesus' atoning work did not take place on the cross, but rather in the Garden of Gethsemane when He was sweating drops of blood; 5. that one can attain salvation by his own works, mingled with those of Christ when he needs them; 6. that there are 3 levels of heaven that almost all of mankind will eventually end up in, leaving only a handful of individuals in hell; 7. that one can be baptized for a dead person to give that person a second chance at a higher level of heaven after he has already died; 8. that eventually all men will get the chance to be gods on their own planets and have their own spirit babies to populate their own universes and that's just the main things that come to the forefront of my mind! There are so many other ridiculous and heretical things taught in the Book of Mormon and other Mormon writings that I don't know how in the world you can say that the Bible doesn't contradict them! And if you haven't heard that the Book of Mormon teaches those things, either someone's really been lying to you, or a lot of people have been lying to me...

Do you only read the Book of Mormon, or do you believe in any other Mormon doctrines? If you do read other teachings, which ones? If not, why did you choose the Book of Mormon? Just wondering.

@chiefofsinners - If you have been told that those things are taught in the BOM, then you may have been misinformed. Have you read the BOM? If so, you would find that none of those things are taught in there. However, even if you haven't, a few simple searches will show that those things are either not mentioned, or are taught against in the BOM.

(As a note, I did do these searches on the LDS site, so it's with their verse/chapter numberings. The version that the RLDS use has completely different verse/chapter numbers, but the text itself is almost exactly the same. Just FYI.)

Kolob- http://www.lds.org/scriptures/search?lang=eng&query=Kolob&testament=bofm

One God

• http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/11?lang=eng (This is Alma ch. 11. Just for background info, Amulek is defending his faith to someone who is trying to throw doubt on everything Amulek is teaching and destroy the faith of the believers, but Zeezrom is never able to trip Amulek up in his words. Scroll down to verse 26-29, and see what Amulek states very clearly about this.)

Trinity

• http://www.lds.org/scriptures/search?lang=eng&type=verse&query=Father,+Son,+Holy+Spirit,+one+God&testament=bofm This one isn't the best verse to use as an example, but it still mentions the "Three in One"ness of God.

And I don't have time to mess with doing all the searches right now, but if you were to do it, or even to read the BOM to look for those things, you would not find them.

@SoulWinner - Sorry, I'm not real clear on what you mean. Do you mean the doctrines that they teach, or do you mean their other "scriptures", like the Pearl of Great Price?

Talitha, do you hold to the "Doctrine and Covenants"? I'm finding things all over that document to support what I'm saying.

other scriptures

Wait a second. If we don't believe in the Book of Mormon, does that mean we are going to hell?

Hmm, that's a good question. I'll be waiting for an answer……..

I am homeschooled too TalithaCumorah

Woah ! Talitha, If you don't know about all the LDS records that absolutely prove that Joseph Smith participated in, taught, and required of his leadership to practice polygamy, Boy, have you been misinformed and deceived !! Are you pulling everyone's leg, or are you seriously THAT misinformed??

Also, I found something in the Book of Mormon that actually doesn’t agree with Scripture. Supposedly, after Jesus' resurrection and before His ascension, He went to the Americas and preached to the Indians. Uh… how doesn't this conflict with Scripture? He stayed in Israel for the forty days in between His resurrection and ascension, according to the Bible. Do you have an answer for this?

Has anyone else besides me noticed that Talitha Cumorah stopped posting after you guys started blasting her arguments? Just sayin'………..

MercyAndGrace (and everybody else too)… I have been meaning to respond to all of these, but we have been crazy busy for the last few weeks, and it doesn't seem likely to stop soon. So I'll try to comment again as soon as I can, okay? Thanks for being patient.

Umm, it's been more than 3 weeks now? Are you gonna post or what?

So much for being patient, huh? :P

Huh, she abandoned us……..