Can Music Styles be Sinful?

Sam and I did a Fun Fridays episode about this question; you can listen to it here: http://mustardseedfaithmedia.weebly.com/fun-fridays/can-music-styles-be-sinful.

The question here is more specifically: Can music styles be sinful in and of themselves? Without sinful lyrics, if we're not using it for sinful purposes, can any genre of music be sinful?

If your conscience won't let you listen to a certain music style, don't do it–but to judge others for listening to it, if they're not sinning with it and if it doens't have sinful lyrics, is legalism. If you don't agree, prove from Scripture that I'm sinning by listening to instrumental rock music when I mow the lawn.

Discuss!

I've heard the argument that God is a God of order, not chaos (based off of 1 Corinthians 14:40). Thus, some music styles are wrong because they are loud/crazy/etc.
And what crossed my mind was: "Um, hurricanes, tornadoes, fires…hmm, very orderly." (Not like God isn't orderly, just pointing that out)
I believe that verse was taken out of context. The verse says:
"Let all things be done decently and in order." (NKJV)
"But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way." (NIV)

If you read/skim over that whole section (vv. 26-40), or even just look at the heading of that section, you see that this is talking about order in church meetings.
Now, I am not saying that outside of church/meetings, things are free to be absolutely chaotic/crazy or whatever. But honestly, who is to say that a song or style of music is chaotic? Sure, lots of songs are loud/upbeat, but that doesn't always mean chaotic. I looked up "Chaos" in Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary, and it had several definitions/meanings: Chasm, abyss; a state of things in which chance is supreme; a state of utter confusion; a confused mass or mixture.
I don't know about anyone else, but none of those really seem to fit with what I think people are thinking when they say a song/music style is chaotic. Unless a certain style puts you in a state of utter confusion, or makes you very confused. :P

^Just a thought. Please, correct me if anything I said was wrong, or not stated properly.^

And in light of what Rosie said, if a music style is crazy, fast, out-of-tune/time, has random sounds, sounds more like noise than music–like dubstep–SO WHAT? It might sound epic or exciting. It's not gonna be a spiritual stumbling-block for all Christians. If it is for you, no one's forcing you to listen to it.

@Rosie~ I agree 100% with what you said.

And in light of what Rosie said, if a music style is crazy, fast, out-of-tune/time, has random sounds, sounds more like noise than music--like dubstep--SO WHAT? It might sound epic or exciting. It's not gonna be a spiritual stumbling-block for all Christians. If it is for you, no one's forcing you to listen to it. @Rosie~ I agree 100% with what you said.

Dubstep is music.

And in light of what Rosie said, if a music style is crazy, fast, out-of-tune/time, has random sounds, sounds more like noise than music--like dubstep--SO WHAT? It might sound epic or exciting. It's not gonna be a spiritual stumbling-block for all Christians. If it is for you, no one's forcing you to listen to it. @Rosie~ I agree 100% with what you said.

Dubstep *is* music.

Sure, Sam. JK…sorta. xD

I've heard some dubstep that I'd call music and some dubstep I'd call noise. I thought both were super-cool, though.

And even if it's just electric guitars playing discord, how's that different than listening to tornado sound effects? Show me FROM SCRIPTURE how that's sinful–not from your opinion.

Now, if we're watching disgusting-looking guys screaming their heads off and destroying expensive stuff in the dark, now… we can talk about that another time!

And even if it's just electric guitars playing discord, how's that different than listening to tornado sound effects? Show me FROM SCRIPTURE how that's sinful--not from your opinion.

I call that sound fx, not music. :P :D
I totally agree with yours and Rosie's posts, though.

Male cow excrement.

There cannot be such a thing as a sinful music style, just like there cannot be a sinful style of grass. (and I don't mean blue grass neither!)

I believe that one type of music is sinful. Hypnotic music. We are commanded not to become drunk, and I believe that hypnotic music can produce some of the same effects as that.

All music is sinful!

I believe that one type of music is sinful. Hypnotic music. We are commanded not to become drunk, and I believe that hypnotic music can produce some of the same effects as that.

I haven't studied hypnosis enough to know. But I did read a very interesting account of a school gathering at which students who wanted to be hypnotized could be–for fun. All came out of their trance except one. They took him to the hospital, and his father came. His father then stood by the bed and said "In the name of Christ, I command you: come out of him!" And the student was restored to consciousness. That's just something I read online, so I can't guarantee it's all true; but it's definitely something to think about.

I believe that one type of music is sinful. Hypnotic music. We are commanded not to become drunk, and I believe that hypnotic music can produce some of the same effects as that.

I haven't studied hypnosis enough to know. But I did read a very interesting account of a school gathering at which students who wanted to be hypnotized could be--for fun. All came out of their trance except one. They took him to the hospital, and his father came. His father then stood by the bed and said "In the name of Christ, I command you: come out of him!" And the student was restored to consciousness. That's just something I read online, so I can't guarantee it's all true; but it's definitely something to think about.

I heard one hypnotic song in a store once, and sounded like it could do something like in that story. It was all I could do to keep from going crazy. I had to pray and recite scripture constantly to keep my mind sane. It was exactly like the chapter in The Silver Chair where the characters are fighting against the hypnotic spell, except we didn't let it get that far. Needless to say we left that store quickly without bothering to find what we were looking for. So that is what I am meaning when I say hypnotic. I think that it is best to avoid music like that.

Hmmm… 0_o That sounds weird. How did you know it was hypnotic? What was it like? Because it seems strange that they would play that kind of music in a store.

Hmmm... 0_o That sounds weird. How did you know it was hypnotic? What was it like? Because it seems strange that they would play that kind of music in a store.

I would have to admit it was quite unusual, and I am not sure why they were playing it. I have never heard anything like it before or since then. I will attempt to describe it. It was somewhat flute-like, but sounded computer generated, and not like anyone was actually playing it. It was very repetitious and rather mindless. Usually songs do not repeat the EXACT same thing over and over and over without a single variation. Even choruses in songs sound slightly different every time. My mom and I were the ones in the store, and we both were feeling very uneasy and slightly stupefied by the music. It worked so well that we only had enough strength left to think "Get me out of here!", which is what we did. Had we stayed, I believe we would have either been frozen stock still, or turned into lunatics. It was quite freaky. It was not even really a song, and didn't exactly have tune. You could feel it more than hear it. There is no song I have heard that I can compare it to. It was SLIGHTLY like some really weird Eastern songs I have heard, but it was even stranger than that. It had quite an unearthly sound. So I only know it was hypnotic because it half hypnotized me before I left. But, once I walked out the door, I was completely normal again, except for being shaken by that experience.

Hmmm... 0_o That sounds weird. How did you know it was hypnotic? What was it like? Because it seems strange that they would play that kind of music in a store.

I would have to admit it was quite unusual, and I am not sure why they were playing it. I have never heard anything like it before or since then. I will attempt to describe it. It was somewhat flute-like, but sounded computer generated, and not like anyone was actually playing it. It was very repetitious and rather mindless. Usually songs do not repeat the EXACT same thing over and over and over without a single variation. Even choruses in songs sound slightly different every time. My mom and I were the ones in the store, and we both were feeling very uneasy and slightly stupefied by the music. It worked so well that we only had enough strength left to think "Get me out of here!", which is what we did. Had we stayed, I believe we would have either been frozen stock still, or turned into lunatics. It was quite freaky. It was not even really a song, and didn't exactly have tune. You could feel it more than hear it. There is no song I have heard that I can compare it to. It was SLIGHTLY like some really weird Eastern songs I have heard, but it was even stranger than that. It had quite an unearthly sound. So I only know it was hypnotic because it half hypnotized me before I left. But, once I walked out the door, I was completely normal again, except for being shaken by that experience.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeired. Now…yeah…I'd agree that mind-altering music, would be bad.

Hmmm... 0_o That sounds weird. How did you know it was hypnotic? What was it like? Because it seems strange that they would play that kind of music in a store.

I would have to admit it was quite unusual, and I am not sure why they were playing it. I have never heard anything like it before or since then. I will attempt to describe it. It was somewhat flute-like, but sounded computer generated, and not like anyone was actually playing it. It was very repetitious and rather mindless. Usually songs do not repeat the EXACT same thing over and over and over without a single variation. Even choruses in songs sound slightly different every time. My mom and I were the ones in the store, and we both were feeling very uneasy and slightly stupefied by the music. It worked so well that we only had enough strength left to think "Get me out of here!", which is what we did. Had we stayed, I believe we would have either been frozen stock still, or turned into lunatics. It was quite freaky. It was not even really a song, and didn't exactly have tune. You could feel it more than hear it. There is no song I have heard that I can compare it to. It was SLIGHTLY like some really weird Eastern songs I have heard, but it was even stranger than that. It had quite an unearthly sound. So I only know it was hypnotic because it half hypnotized me before I left. But, once I walked out the door, I was completely normal again, except for being shaken by that experience.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeired. Now...yeah...I'd agree that mind-altering music, would be bad.

Yeah, it was really weird. I'm sure that any Christian and almost every non-Christian would think that music was bad if they heard it.

Okay, thanks. Sounds psychedelic. I've never heard anything like that.

Okay, thanks. Sounds psychedelic. I've never heard anything like that.

Yep, psychedelic is the correct word! It was.
So other than that, I haven't heard any music genres that I think are bad in and of themselves. Of course there are a few songs that I think are bad, but not any other genres. :)

All music is sinful!

You just contradicted yourself. You said that there cannot be sinful music styles, and now you're saying all music is sinful. I was wondering which one you thought is acually is, since you said two different things. :)

Ever heard of multiple personalities?

Well, guess what I had a dream about last night? A bunch of friends, including you, were in a store; and repetitious square-lead-synth music came on (a square-lead-synth is a synthesizer that somewhat resembles a flute). You said that it was the music you had heard before. Of course, I immediately went crazy; but I think it was just because my dreaming mind knew that was what was supposed to happen (so I think that if I actually heard it, that wouldn't happen). Everyone was slightly disturbed, but I was able to counter by reciting Psalm 23 really loudly.

Is it possible that the only reason you were disturbed by the music is because you're not used to it? Did you notice the other people in the store–did they look disturbed (or hypnotized)?

Your description reminded me of a really weird piece, Netherworld Shanty, by a CC composer named Kevin MacLeod. I'm sure it's not the same piece because it's not repetitious as you described, but is music in the link below similar at all? (It has never given me any weird feeling, so it should be safe. All you'd have to listen to is about 5 or 10 seconds, anyway.)

Green hair, orange eyes, a flabby nose, pointed ears…

JUST KIDDING!

I really don't know if he looked like anything in particular. You know how dreams are.

Well, guess what I had a dream about last night? A bunch of friends, including you, were in a store; and repetitious square-lead-synth music came on (a square-lead-synth is a synthesizer that somewhat resembles a flute). You said that it was the music you had heard before. Of course, I immediately went crazy; but I think it was just because my dreaming mind knew that was what was supposed to happen (so I think that if I actually heard it, that wouldn't happen). Everyone was slightly disturbed, but I was able to counter by reciting Psalm 23 really loudly. Is it possible that the only reason you were disturbed by the music is because you're not used to it? Did you notice the other people in the store--did they look disturbed (or hypnotized)? Your description reminded me of a really weird piece, _Netherworld Shanty_, by a CC composer named Kevin MacLeod. I'm sure it's not the same piece because it's not repetitious as you described, but is music in the link below similar at all? (It has never given me any weird feeling, so it should be safe. All you'd have to listen to is about 5 or 10 seconds, anyway.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgNb38Z8d6s&feature=youtu.be&t=24s

That was a weird dream. Hey, am I officially a friend? Cool!

I think that that music would have the same effects no matter how many times I listened to it, but I am not sure. There was not a single person in the store except for one cashier, who looked somewhat blanked out, but maybe not much more than a few cashiers I have seen, I only saw her for a split second.

I listened to a couple seconds of that song, and while it was eerie and creepy, it was not like the song I heard in that store. This one at least had a tune. But it had enough similarities that I may be able to compare the two to give you a better idea of that hypnotic song from the store. The instrument was slightly similar, only much less digital sounding. The tune was much slower and had a VERY small range of notes. About five or six I think. It was rather discordant, and didn't seem to follow any rules of music except for having a slow, monotonous tempo. It was about a twelve note piece that just kept repeating without the slightest variation in instrument, speed, pitch, sound, or anything, which is why I think it was a computer-generated song since an instrument hitting the same note will sound slightly different every time, although it did not have a digital or computerized sound. I think there was also some sort of a chanting kind of singing in it as well, although it also did not sound real, as no one ever paused to take a breath. I think the whole thing was alto, the singing and the instruments, if that would help give you an idea.

I appreciate all of your questions! I am very sorry that I have not been able to describe it very vividly. It was so unusual and out of the ordinary that I have a hard time comparing it to anything.

I hope that will help at least a little bit! I am very willing to answer more questions if you have any!

You've answered my questions pretty well. Are you sure it couldn't have just been a very poor production?

You've answered my questions pretty well. Are you sure it couldn't have just been a very poor production?

What do you mean by a poor production? If you mean technically wise, it sounded like it was decently high-quality. But it could have been intended only as an eerie song, and not as a hypnotic song, they just couldn't quite capture that correctly. It just turned out being hypnotic. It was not just eerie it was also really unearthly and monotonous. I never have heard anything that has compared even close to it. It was just plain weird.

Well, when I first started making music, some of the pieces I made came out pretty terrible; and what you described almost sounds something like that.

Well, when I first started making music, some of the pieces I made came out pretty terrible; and what you described almost sounds something like that.

Do you happen to have a sample I could listen to somewhere?

No, because I deleted all the ones that came out like that! :-D

No, because I deleted all the ones that came out like that! :-D

I personally think that song was intentionally like that, but it might not have the same effects on everyone, just like drugs will be different on different people. It was probably 15 minutes long at least, which seems really long for a beginner to make his song.

Okay! :) Do you have any music pieces that you made that you like? I would be interested in hearing them. What kind of music do you compose?

I compose all kinds of music. My website is www.mustardseedfaithmedia.tk; you can find it there. Matthew Minica has some published there, too. I will give you some links to some of my best. The most pathetic piece I've published is called Cram for the Final Exam; it's crazy, mostly random piano. I'm sure it's nothing like what we've been talking about, though.

+Matrimonial March+ - http://mustardseedfaithmedia.weebly.com/music/matrimonial-march
+Race Against Time+ - http://mustardseedfaithmedia.weebly.com/music/race-against-time

Those are my two best. Now, I would like to ask your opinion on another one that I made:
+Black Dawn+ - http://mustardseedfaithmedia.weebly.com/music/black-dawn
What do you think of it? 0_o

I compose all kinds of music. My website is www.mustardseedfaithmedia.tk; you can find it there. Matthew Minica has some published there, too. I will give you some links to some of my best. The most pathetic piece I've published is called _Cram for the Final Exam_; it's crazy, mostly random piano. I'm sure it's nothing like what we've been talking about, though. +Matrimonial March+ - http://mustardseedfaithmedia.weebly.com/music/matrimonial-march +Race Against Time+ - http://mustardseedfaithmedia.weebly.com/music/race-against-time Those are my two best. Now, I would like to ask your opinion on another one that I made: +Black Dawn+ - http://mustardseedfaithmedia.weebly.com/music/black-dawn What do you think of it? 0_o

Wow! You really have some potential there! How did you learn to write music like that? Did you just teach yourself or did you take some sort of course for it?

I liked Matrimonial March, but my favorite was Race Against Time. I always love dangerous sounding action songs.

Black Dawn was also interesting. I don't think I have heard songs with whispering before! It reminded me of some Sherlock Holmes stories. I especially liked the ending where it sounds like the detective finds his clue. While it is slightly out of the ordinary, I think you did well on making it eerie but not creepy.

Keep it up! I really look forward to hearing new songs that you will make. :)

Thank you very much. I took piano lessons, but not composition lessons. I composed a few pieces throughout the time I had piano lessons. Then I started writing hymn melodies, and then I started making soundtracks for my audio dramas with MuseScore. Now I make my music with a keyboard. I have a lot more music on my website, and if you want to keep up with new compositions, you can subscribe. I've also been working on Scripture songs for Bible Bee: http://mustardseedfaithmedia.weebly.com/scripture-songs-bible-bee.html.

Thank you very much. I took piano lessons, but not composition lessons. I composed a few pieces throughout the time I had piano lessons. Then I started writing hymn melodies, and then I started making soundtracks for my audio dramas with MuseScore. Now I make my music with a keyboard. I have a lot more music on my website, and if you want to keep up with new compositions, you can subscribe. I've also been working on Scripture songs for Bible Bee: http://mustardseedfaithmedia.weebly.com/scripture-songs-bible-bee.html.

Cool! Is mustardseedfaithmedia.weebly.com your website, or do you have another?

There are two links to the same website: mustardseedfaithmedia.weebly.com and mustardseedfaithmedia.tk. Both go to the same site. The .tk one is the official one, but it doesn't really matter.

There are two links to the same website: mustardseedfaithmedia.weebly.com and mustardseedfaithmedia.tk. Both go to the same site. The .tk one is the official one, but it doesn't really matter.

Great! I'll check it out when I get a chance. :)

Oh, Aidan… are you sure it couldn't have been music from a different part of the world? Perhaps tribal music? Because what you described actually sounds like music from a different culture.

Oh, Aidan... are you sure it couldn't have been music from a different part of the world? Perhaps tribal music? Because what you described actually sounds like music from a different culture.

It might have been. It sounded really, REALLY Eastern-like. Kind of like if you could extract all of the strange parts from Eastern songs (if you know what I mean) and mash them all together. It still would be something I don't think I could ever feel normal with. Especially because I was partially dazed by it. It was not just like hearing a different kind of music, such as when I heard some rock for the first time. If anything something new makes my brain go on overdrive rather than idle.

But, you could be correct. It may have been music from a different culture, which perhaps is what pushed it over the edge for me. Had I been from China or Taiwan or something, I may have only thought it was weird rather than getting part stupefied by it. It had a similar effect on my mom though (it was just the two of us in there), so I am not quite sure. I had it worse than her I know.

Ah, Eastern. I actually like Eastern music. :-D

Ah, Eastern. I actually like Eastern music. :-D

That….is…..disgusting.

Oh, Aidan... are you sure it couldn't have been music from a different part of the world? Perhaps tribal music? Because what you described actually sounds like music from a different culture.

It might have been. It sounded really, REALLY Eastern-like. Kind of like if you could extract all of the strange parts from Eastern songs (if you know what I mean) and mash them all together. It still would be something I don't think I could ever feel normal with. Especially because I was partially dazed by it. It was not just like hearing a different kind of music, such as when I heard some rock for the first time. If anything something new makes my brain go on overdrive rather than idle. But, you could be correct. It may have been music from a different culture, which perhaps is what pushed it over the edge for me. Had I been from China or Taiwan or something, I may have only thought it was weird rather than getting part stupefied by it. It had a similar effect on my mom though (it was just the two of us in there), so I am not quite sure. I had it worse than her I know.

Sorry, I don't think that I explained myself very well here. I was only saying that it may have been made in an Eastern country because one of the instruments in it sounded Eastern. It very well could have been made anywhere else in the world too.

Ah, Eastern. I actually like Eastern music. :-D

Yeah, some Eastern music is great! I really like "High Mountain, Flowing Water". It is so melodic, majestic, and peaceful.

Ohhh, okay. Maybe it was a sitar? :-P

Ohhh, okay. Maybe it was a sitar? :-P

What is that? Is it an instrument?

An Eastern instrument with a twang. :-)

An Eastern instrument with a twang. :-)

Oh I love that one! It sounds so cool.

I've only made one piece with a sitar: http://mustardseedfaithmedia.weebly.com/music/battlefield.

I've only made one piece with a sitar: http://mustardseedfaithmedia.weebly.com/music/battlefield.

Alright! I'll have to listen to that. I'm a bit busy right now since we're preparing for my little sister's 5th birthday, but I'm quite interested in hearing it. I think I can get to it on Monday, and I will let you know what I think of it. :)

I've only made one piece with a sitar: http://mustardseedfaithmedia.weebly.com/music/battlefield.

Alright! I'll have to listen to that. I'm a bit busy right now since we're preparing for my little sister's 5th birthday, but I'm quite interested in hearing it. I think I can get to it on Monday, and I will let you know what I think of it. :)

Well, I guess I got a chance earlier than I thought. I didn't know that a sitar could hit such low notes! All in all, good piece Nathan, but I would have to admit the sitar was the best part (in my opinion)! :)

Thanks, Aiden! :-D That's not an Eastern piece, but the sitar went well with it. also, the sitar was playing in sync with an accordion, which was probably the low tone you heard. But the sitar was the dominant instrument in that part. I made the music with a keyboard, so it might have been lower than a sitar would actually be able to go. :-)

Oh!! Aidan, I just remembered that I have composed one other piece containing a sitar. In fact, it's one of the main instruments in this one. It's not published on my site yet, but it is on Grooveshark! I wrote it for the opening scene of my audio drama The One-eyed Elephant (http://mustardseedfaithmedia.weebly.com/audio-dramas/the-one-eyed-elephant), which takes place in India.
Here is the link to the music: http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/Indian+Elephant+Howdah/6RA1tS?src=5.

I have a couple hundred pieces published, but not all of them have their own separate blog post yet. The separate blog posts allow people to search according to metadata, eg. you could click on the +Sitar+ link and it would show all pieces containing a sitar. It is possible I have more sitar pieces to which the metadata has not yet been published, and don't remember. I'll let you know if I remember any more! :-)

{Edit} I found one more: Forever Dusk. http://mustardseedfaithmedia.bandcamp.com/track/forever-dusk (I'm not sure if Climbing Rapunzel's Hair has it or not, but I think not.)

Okay, I finally got a chance to listen to both of those. Forever Dusk was especially great!