Christmas/holidays

I think most everyone celebrates Christmas - what do y'all believe about it? Is there anyone here who believes that Jesus was actually born on December 25th? If so, I want to know why! :) What about other holidays? Like Easter and Halloween? What do you think about the pagan origins about all those holidays?

Go!

We don't celebrate Christmas like most people. Our Christmas is family-centered not gift-centered. We actually spend Dec 24th with friends. Then Dec 25 with extended family. Then maybe at night we will get some things for the next year. AKA socks, school, books, and Chick-Fil-A calendars. We don't think he was actually born on that day, that is just the day we chose to celebrate it.

We don't celebrate Easter, we celebrate Ressurection Sunday, but even then we don't do a sunrise service.

We don't celebrate Halloween, but we celebrate Diet of Worms, complete with the Gummy Worm cake.

We hardly celebrate Christmas at all - a lot because our church doesn't. But one time when our Grandpa came to visit, he was talking to Mama, and said something like, We know Jesus wasn't born on December 25th, but it's really sad that churches don't celebrate Christ's birth at all, just because the bible doesn't tell us what day he was born on. So our family has sung Christmas songs, the good ones, at least, and we still don't do much, but I think celebrating Christmas with you family, as long as you do it the right way, make sure everyone knows Christmas really isn't the exact day Jesus was born, no Santa Claus, and focus on giving instead of getting, it would be a wonderful family tradition and way to celebrate Christ's birth!

We don't celebrate Easter, Resurrection Sunday, (which I think is kind of like Easter for Christians) or Halloween, Valentines Day, or very many holidays at all. We actually don't believe that Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday. Do you?

Oh okay. :) I believe he rose on Saturday.

Okay, but if he died Friday night. The 3 days would be Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. What day do you think he died on?

I believe he died Wednesday evening. A lot of Christians believe he died Thursday morning, I believe, and rose Sunday morning, soon before the disciples went to the tomb. But I believe he died Wednesday evening, rose Saturday evening, and they went to the tomb Sunday morning, after the Sabbath was over. I think I said all that right. :)

According to John 20, the tomb was empty on the first day of the week. I've heard it explained that Jesus died on Thursday. According to the explanation, John 19:31 refers to Friday as "Sabbath" because that Friday was the beginning of the Passover festival, during which the Jews were not allowed to work.

Right, but that's only Friday after sundown. The Jews could have left the bodies up over night and taken them down on Friday before sundown if it had been a regular Friday (assuming Jesus was crucified on Thursday).
Why do you believe that He rose Saturday evening?

I'm not very well prepared to debate why I believe he rose on Saturday. I have always been taught by my parents and church that he died Wednesday evening and rose Saturday. I'll try to get more for you on that. :)

@Rosie: I'm a little confused by the math, too, so don't ask me to really defend this, but since Jewish days started at sunset, a day doesn't really mean exactly what we think of it as meaning. Also, you're saying Jesus died at night. Not to be finicky or sound like I'm trying to correct you :), but He died in the afternoon, 3:00 PM. He was already on the cross at noon.

@anna Jesus said that he would be in the tomb for three days and three night like Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights. I always find it easier to count the nights. I like math, but counting isn't my strength.
So, my reasoning on this is, we know Jesus couldn't have risen after the morning of the first day. Counting back three nights, we have seventh-day/first-day night, sixth-day/seventh-day night, and fifth-day/sixth-day night. Therefore, it seems He could not have died after the fifth day. If He died on the fourth day, he must have risen on the seventh day before night. If that were the case, however, it would seem weird that the earthquake and the rolling away of the stone did not happen until the next day. Therefore, it would be my personal conclusion that He rose on the first day and died on the fifth day.

What do you all think of Jesus' words in Matthew 12:38-40?

"For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

To answer the first question: Actually, I don't celebrate Christmas because of its pagan origins, and I really don't feel comfortable mixing idolatry with Christ. However, when I see signs saying stuff like, "Keep Christ out of Christmas!" it saddens my heart, not because Jesus was really in Christmas in the first place, but because it shows the heart of the people and how this nation has and is rejecting God.

To answer Everett's question: I love how the Lord Jesus drew facts from the Old Testament and showed that they were a picture of Him. Even the amount of days Jonah spent in the great fish's belly was a foreshadow of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

What's the point of CHRISTmas if Christians don't celebrate it? Aren't you the people that made it?

SMH maybe the spaghetti monster doesn't want them to.

@Lydia Christmas may have arisen out of an attempt to mix pagan tradition with Christianity, but I think it's safe to say that it is now a thoroughly Christian holiday. I don't think there's a Biblical reason to reject something just because it was used for evil in the past. This debate reminds me of Paul's argument about eating things sacrificed to idols. An idol is nothing. The only reason to abstain is if eating those things made someone stumble. I don't think celebrating Christmas is going to make anyone think Christians are condoning ancient pagan traditions. If you don't want to celebrate Christmas, that's perfectly fine, but I don't think it's wrong for Christians to celebrate Christmas. I'd be happy to hear your thoughts though!

NOTE: This is almost all relating solely to the three days and nights(when Jesus died and rose) and is not specifically meant to be applied to anything else, so please don't take me out of context. Also realize that this entire post is taking into consideration that the biblical day starts at sundown and is until sundown of the next day.

So to begin with, what do you think about Daniel 9:26-27? "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

I think this is saying that Christ would die in the middle of the week, and wouldn't that mean "Wednesday", the 4th day(which is the middle of a 7 day week) of the week? If you do the math from there (Wednesday night + Thursday day = 1 day + 1 night, Thursday night + Friday day = 2, and Friday night + Saturday day = 3), you come to Saturday shortly before sundown.

Also you have to think about how the Jewish calendar corresponds with ours. I'm having trouble finding an actual chart that simply lists which day of which month on the Jewish calendar corresponds with which day of which month on our calendar. But I do know that Nisan is the first month on the Jewish calendar(and corresponds with March/April on our calendar). Exodus 12:1-3 says "And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying, This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you. Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:" And it goes on in the next few verses to talk about specifications for the lamb. Then in verses 6-7: "And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it."
If you read all of Exodus 12, you can gather from it that the Passover/preparation day was Nisan 14th, and the high sabbath was Nisan 15th. And if you combine it with the story of the last supper, Jesus' trial, crucifixion and burial (the 4th day of the week), you find that Nisan 15th was the 5th day of the week, which is Wednesday night and Thursday day.
So, Nisan 14th is Passover, and then starts the Feast of Unleavened Bread. And you can see in Exodus 12:16 that there were 2 high sabbath's to do with the Feast, one at the beginning (Nisan 15th), and one at the end (Nisan 21st). "And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you."

A sermon was preached in our church recently on this subject - the three days and nights - and it was quite interesting. One thing was brought up that I'm not quite sure on but thought was interesting. Matthew 28:1 says, "In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre." Now, it says the end of the sabbath, which with the biblical day would be sunset on 'Saturday,' the seventh day of the week! He also pointed out that "dawn" means "to begin," (and the beginning of the first day of the week would be sundown Saturday night) not necessarily "to get light" as we usually think. So I'm not sure exactly what I think of that quite yet, but anyways. If that is true, it would mean that the women went to the tomb after on Saturday evening(or maybe in the wee hours on the first day of the week "Sunday"?), not a very long while after Jesus had risen. Any thoughts on that?

About what time of day he died; Matthew 27:45-46 says this: "Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" And a few verses on in verse 50: "Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost." You can get some more clarity on the subject in Mark 15, which says that he was crucified at the 3rd hour, there was darkness from the 6th hour to the 9th hour, and both books imply that he died right around the 9th hour, which if you figure it out would be 3 in the afternoon our time.

Another thing that I noticed - Jesus said that the Son of Man would be three days in the heart of the earth. So that would make it seem that he did not rise at 3pm Saturday afternoon just because he died at 3pm Wednesday afternoon, because he was not "in the earth" yet at the very moment he died. So he would have risen later more towards the end of the day and very close to sundown.

Joshua: You said, "If He died on the fourth day, he must have risen on the seventh day before night. If that were the case, however, it would seem weird that the earthquake and the rolling away of the stone did not happen until the next day. Therefore, it would be my personal conclusion that He rose on the first day and died on the fifth day."
I think you are forgetting/overlooking that Jesus did not need the stone to be rolled away to rise/come out of the tomb. The earthquake when the women went to the tomb, the angel coming down from heaven and rolling the stone away, and the guards becoming like dead men, were solely so that the women could see into the tomb and know that he had risen. Jesus was already risen when the stone was rolled away.
Also, do you believe/agree that Jesus died around 3 in the afternoon, regardless of the day? If so, how would that work, if the Marys came to the tomb very early on the first day of the week? Because if he died on the 5th day of the week and was put into the tomb shortly before sundown, if you do the math, it would seem that he would rise sometime late afternoon, shortly before sundown, on Sunday, the first day of the week, which would mean that he rose after the women saw the empty tomb! The 5th day shortly before sundown to the first day before sunup is not 3 days and three nights. It could possibly be 2 days and 3 nights depending on the time in the morning he rose, but you're missing a day.
The only way he could have died on the 5th day of the week, and risen on the 1st before the women came to the tomb, and been in the tomb 3 full days and nights, is if he died during the night (either after dark on Wednesday or before light on Thursday) on the 5th day of the week (and then rose during the night on the 1st day), which doesn't really make sense, considering, besides the fact that the bible clearly tells us what time of day he died.

I hope this all makes sense. I'm still thinking through some of these things myself, so forgive me if it doesn't make sense or is repetitive in places. I am very open to correction and discussion as well and hope to hear y'alls thoughts on all this.