Guidelines for Theological Discussions

Everyone,

We have had to take the step of locking some discussions because they have degenerated into flame wars. Very few internet forums have found a way to prevent flame wars and we would prefer not to have to spend our time trying to solve the problem on Memverse.

This forum, in particular, lends itself to divisive discussion by its nature. That said, in between the vitriol I've found great nuggets.

What is the way forward?

We need a set of agreed guidelines for posts in this forum. I have some ideas and intend to codify them in due time. I would like to get to a short list of guidelines which is:

a) comprehensive enough that any post failing to meet all the guidelines will be deleted, but
b) succinct enough that those who tend to the combative can readily adhere to them; and
c) obvious enough that most people with common sense won't even have to read them.

I'd like the community to help out on this. What do you think should be the ground rules for this forum? I'd like to get a list no longer than ten and preferably shorter.

This isn't an apply for a list of rules but principles do apply.

I would apreciate it if all of us would seriously consider what we have done to contribute to the atmosphere of discord here. Just shutting this down and forgetting about it would be wrong.

Many of us have said things that were wrong and unkind. If you have said things in the Theology Forums, (and this will apply to all of us too) please prayerfully consider how your words and attitudes have or will help to contribute to the problem, or if they have helped encourage and edify others.

1 Thessalonians 5:11-15(KJV)

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;
13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.
14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.

I believe that it is my duty to do what verse 14 says (yes some here were unruly).

1 John 4:11
King James Version (KJV)

11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another

1 John 4:20-21(KJV)

20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

These verses are very clear that we must love eachother, why? because if we don't it is proof that we don't love GOD.

John 13:34-35(KJV)

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

This means that when we are unloving we are bad witnesses to non-believers.
On a publicly accessable forum such as this Christ's name would be blasphemed by our actions to the whole world.

Luke 6:27-33(KJV)

27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

These are the words of Christ whom we claim to follow, very clearly stating we should love others. If we do not obey him we are sinning.

Many things said on here(not this specific thread) were not loving. If you think they were, what was your motive in saying them, was it to justify yourself, or to get revenge.
Or was it to help someone.
It is true that to let someone go on believeing a delusion is not loving. If a child is running into the road, pulling them back is love.
Many times what was said however even though it might have had the right end in mind, was not justified by the means, the words were lost on all others ears, because you did it in an unloving way.

We have to be careful how we speak, read through what you have said(you have an advantage here above conversation, you can retract misworded phrases before they reach others) and try to see what others will be seeing, how they will take what you are saying. Here it is a disadvantage, as you cannot detect actual tone of voice,( a good indicator of attitude), try to see what tone you are typing in and correct it if necessary.
When reading others posts we must also be giving them the benifit of the doubt that what they were saying is meant well.

When making a post, taking the time to make sure that the grammer and spelling is correct is also important, because it shows that we care enough about others that we will take some time to make sure what we have said is not difficult to decifer.

Let us continue to do as it said in 1 Thess. 5:14, Exhorting one another and Edifying one another.
Heresy needs to be checked, but not just yelled at. We need to explain why it is wrong from Scripture.
Usually this includes where, and it helps if you have the verses copied in.

When discussing and arguing with others, (arguing is great) we must remember to go to the level of arguing at most, and never fight.
Nathaniel and Hans Bluedorn have written great books on the subject of logic and arguing and their associated fallacies:
The Fallacy Detective, and The Thinking Toolbox.

Stand up for what you believe in, be bold, but remember it isn't your words or beliefs that count, it is what the Eternal God has said that truly matters.
This means we have no need for defamation of others or their arguments (something unfortunatly practiced to much recently).

Remember also to pray for those with which you disagree, that they would come to the knowledge of Gods truth through his word (if your argument helped, well good, we are to be witnesess of His majesty, telling others what He said, not just what we think).
Praying for them will help you to actually care for them.

Another book recommendation: The Peacemaker by Ken Sande. This wasn't the easiest or most enjoyable book I've read, but it is a good one dealing with this current subject.

Hebrews 10:24-25(KJV)

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Well, though I don't have a set of guidelines to suggest (presently, at least), I decided to come on here to apologize. I made a few comments that, though what I said might have been true, were put a little too harshly. I apologize to Cowboy4Christ specifically for being a bit too harsh to him; although, I do have to say that I'd like to see an apology from him as well. This request is not for personal reasons, as I do not expect him to apologize to me; he did make a few rude comments to others, and I think he ought to apologize for them. But again, I apologize for anything I said that was unnecessarily harsh or rude. Thanks.

One thing I would like to suggest for the guidelines, as a potential rule, is that there be limits on how flippantly the words "heresy" and "heretical" are allowed to be used. I think this has been a problem, both recently and in the past; I would like to see something done about it. Whatever the case, however, I look forward to reading the guidelines when they are composed and released.

And "blasphemy", and "blasphemous", when referring to other people.

I think you guys are sort of missing the point of an apology (Please, I say the following in love :). An apology is not something to be demanded, nor is it an "I'm sorry for what I did, but I had good reason for it" type of action. We, as Christians, are called to forgive those around us whether they openly say I'm sorry" or not. We shouldn't expect everyone to get down on their knees whenever they do something wrong, nor are we to say "He deserves to apologize to him!" Although someone might "deserve" to apologize, we should never pressure anyone into doing so or even expect them to. Our job is to forgive. Jesus never said that we were to demand apologies from our enemies. We are to forgive them seventy times seven times. There is never an excuse for our own inappropriate actions, and we should never respond with "He did it too!" Let us walk as Christ walked. Forgive all, no matter the slight or the offense. :)

You can be sure I've forgiven him, Jimmy. But the problem is, I'm not really the one he's offended. There were people whom he spoke to and about shamefully. I see your point about not pressuring someone into an apology–because if we do, it probably won't be genuine–but this really isn't something that should be treated lightly. Inappropriate things were said, and there has been no evidence of remorse or repentance. I'd just like to see that conflict resolved, or it's going to bother me, and I'll feel bad for the person who's not getting an apology.

Alright, I'd have to say for one thing, we're going to have to know when we need to "Agree to disagree agreeably" and when we need to contend for the faith. (Jude 4) We can't bite at and attack people just because they don't believe exactly what we believe. It's simply not Biblical.

Secondly, I think all of us need to keep in mind that we are discussing these topics with our brothers and sisters in Christ. We are all members of one body and we need to treat each other as Christ treats us… With love one to another.

I've been praying about this problem and this is one verse that God has had on my mind:
Gal 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

Also, Jesus said, "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." (John 13:35) I think we all need to think about what we're writing and consider whether or not those that would read it would know that we are followers of Christ.

That said, I would like to ask everyone if I have said anything that deserves apologizing on my part… What I wrote, I felt like I needed to (Because of the situation) But if I have said anything that is not edifying, please let me know.

@On-Christ-the-solid-rock-I-stand: If your guideline were implemented, who exactly would determine whether or not a post is "sinful"? I think it can be a very dangerous thing when we leave censorship up to one or two people. I think we can agree that no one will purposefully post something they know to be sinful, so I don't think we can really say that sinful comments are to be abolished. It would simply be too hard and subjective. Also, I say this in love, I don't think we should use such strong language with our fellow Memversers (a term I just coined :). Regardless of what they might have done, our job is to forgive, not to constantly reprimand. :)

Everyone, I just want to remind people that the primary purpose of Memverse is to memorize the Bible. We'd like to spend as much time as possible working on improving that aspect. The more everyone is able to keep a cool ahead the less time we'll be distracted from implementing new features and fixing old bugs.

I will add something that a very old pastor told me many years ago: "Only immaturity can't handle immaturity." Remember that everyone is at a different point in their growth. Sometimes it is better to simply not respond. Rather spend the time praying.

Second, I think almost everyone who participates in any theological discussion should consider ways to better make their case. I don't believe any complex topic can be addressed in a few sentences. I would refer everyone to the manner in which John Piper and N.T. Wright have conducted their public debate: with immense respect for the other and with rigorously constructed arguments. We should all strive to achieve that level of discourse.

Finally, please don't rehash old threads in this one. The purpose is to establish some guidelines so let's stick to that. I'm hoping that those of you participating can help put that list together.

[Update: I'm deleting any comments on this thread that aren't constructively proposing a set of guidelines.]

Here's a convicting thought: before you click "post", ask yourself, "Would Jesus have posted this?"

Good post! I try to look at it this way: "What DID Jesus do?", and try to focus on Him, his finished work on the cross and walking worthy of our calling.

@PC: What if someone qoutes a verse and forgets to post the reference?

@HfI: Would that rule include backing up extra Biblical statements as well? For instance, if I stated that Margaret MacDonald invented the pre-tribulation rapture theory, would I have to back that up?

This isn't necessarily a "Guideline", but I would be nice if the edit feature was disabled on the forums, as it has been used in an interesting way recently…

@PC: There has been some deceitful usage of tje "edit" feature here in MemVerse in the last 24 hours, and because I love the MemVerse forums so much, I am now admonishing that behavior, and I feel it best to do it here.

On most forums, once you post something, it's "there". I have been involved in forums where you can't even go back and fix punctuation. Sadly, those forumd find that neccrssary, due to the depraved and wicked heart of mankind that is deceitful above all things. However, I have always. riceated the way MemVerse runs on the honor system without much moderation, and with the ability to edit, delete, or delete segmentsvof a post at anytime. MemVerse's high-trust system reminds me of the day when a. handshake really meant something. Since my joining of this great forum in 2011, I have been involved in several discussions with brothers and sisters in Christ which resulted and is still resulting in spiritual growth for me. Through the yeats of being involved in and watching these theological discussions, the "edit" and "delete" features have always been used in a Christianlike and honesy way, using it for example to correct a typ immeadirly aftwrt the post was made public on the forums. However,what I have seen in thhe 24 hpurs has been a horse of a different color. For instance, PC, you're most recent post here in this topic, yesterday for several hours your post was five times as long as it is now. Then, with no explanation, a whole paragraph mysteriously dissappeared. Another exanple would be in the "Can a Christian say 'Oh my God" " topic. I noted that you used sarcasm in the very same postt you condemned it in. (You can read my post, it's still there). You responded by sayi.ng you didn't realize it was sarcasm, and that was going to be a "hard habit to break" for you. That was how your post looked for several hours. People responded, and you post still looked the same. Then, when I logged in this morning, your very same post had taken on a whole new look, and the phrase: "this is going to be a hard habit to bea." was totally gone without a trace.I could go on with more examples, but my purpose is not to condemn you for your dishonest behavior in the past, but to in love bring it to your attention and show that that kind of conduct is unnaceptable here on memvetse

There have been some pretty bad unkindnesses on the Theology forum recently. Could we please try to be more gracious with each other?

How amusing.

How amusing.

You know, I was thinking, who among us deserves the title of 'Brawling Woman' from proverbs? I'm thinking of nominating Dani,

(Danielle L of course) for she hath left us! She has broked our heart over and over!

How amusing.

You know, I was thinking, who among us deserves the title of 'Brawling Woman' from proverbs? I'm thinking of nominating Dani, (Danielle L of course) for she hath left us! She has broked our heart over and over!

Facedesk Noah!!!

Is there really anything amusing about it?

"Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and ever speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."

Again, I'm sorry if I have been overly argumentative on the Theological Discussions or elsewhere.

He said it was amusing because Dani has not always been kind in her manner (Neither has Sam and Noah though) and yet she is the one who comes and makes that comment…

Well, yes, I can see that. But I happen to know that she's been working on that, and would be thrilled if she wouldn't be the only one working on that. :) Really, have any of us always been kind?

Well, yes, I can see that. But I happen to know that she's been working on that, and would be thrilled if she wouldn't be the only one working on that. :) Really, have any of us _always_ been kind?

This is almost as amusing as the first one. :)

Okay, come on. Cut it out y'all! Why don't we all work on being nice while discussing.

Ha—–ha——ha. Very funny, y'all. I'm being serious! :P Really.

grim smile I'm glad you find it so amusing.

I agree with Dani on this one. Although she has had her moments in the past, she's been getting better. There has been a lot of sarcastic jokes on here, and I find it distracting when I read the threads. I mean really guys? Does everything have to be a joke? I can understand when the conversation has kinda gone down, and when nothing is going on, but when there is a big conversation, is it really okay to insult people in jest by calling them liars? That's a pretty big insult in a theological discussion, and you guys are taking it lightly! Can't you ever be serious? I don't care if you're "deadpool", Noah, cause in the real world I know that's not you and theological discussions are reality, not play! Same with you, Sam.

I agree with Dani on this one. Although she has had her moments in the past, she's been getting better. There has been a lot of sarcastic jokes on here, and I find it distracting when I read the threads. I mean really guys? Does everything have to be a joke? I can understand when the conversation has kinda gone down, and when nothing is going on, but when there is a big conversation, is it really okay to insult people in jest by calling them liars? That's a pretty big insult in a theological discussion, and you guys are taking it lightly! Can't you ever be serious? I don't care if you're "deadpool", Noah, cause in the real world I know that's not you and theological discussions are reality, not play! Same with you, Sam.

Wow. I had no idea that is wrong for us to call someone a liar, but that it's perfectly all right for someone to tell me I'm going to Hell because I disagree with them! Thanks Ian! You've really cleared things up! :D

Again with the jokes! Whenever I think about this I think of the song Sick of It by Skillet. I'm sick and tired of the jokes, and I want to get rid of them. And also, who said that? Dani? I told you she's getting better, and calling someone a liar because they disagree with you is basically the same thing.

Look. When did we begin to get sarcastic? When we got tired of Dani's 1) Generalization 2) Unreasonable Statements that couldn't be backed up [ lookin' at you, Music TD!], and 3) Intolerance of Those Who Disagree with Her. We're fine with people disagreeing. What we don't like is people ramming their views down our throats when we've expressed we don't agree with them.

And Dani's gotten better! And Noah was the one ramming his view down Carissa's throat when he called her a liar!

I have to go now.

Heh. I haven't seen her get better at anything.

So complain to him, not me.

And Dani's gotten better! And Noah was the one ramming his view down Carissa's throat when he called her a liar! I have to go now.

Yeah…not the nicest thing for Noah to say…but believe me, I have gotten used to that ;-)

I agree with Dani on this one. Although she has had her moments in the past, she's been getting better. There has been a lot of sarcastic jokes on here, and I find it distracting when I read the threads. I mean really guys? Does everything have to be a joke? I can understand when the conversation has kinda gone down, and when nothing is going on, but when there is a big conversation, is it really okay to insult people in jest by calling them liars? That's a pretty big insult in a theological discussion, and you guys are taking it lightly! Can't you ever be serious? I don't care if you're "deadpool", Noah, cause in the real world I know that's not you and theological discussions are reality, not play! Same with you, Sam.

Good post^

Guys seriously?!? Come on… Maye if we all acted more "Christ Like" everything would go a lot smoother…
I know I don't have any room to speak and also not judging anyone. I've never really joined in on the TD, but I look at what goes on and it's not always that cool… On the first page Christian and Jimmy had some good words to say. As I've said, I've never joined in much, but I would like to sometime… Ever think about new MVers getting on and having them see us fighting on here?? That could get them to leave and wonder if this really is a good Christian website.. I have a friend who's not allowed on here because of that..
Sorry if you take this the wrong way… Just my two cents. =)

Good post^ Guys seriously?!? Come on... Maye if we all acted more "Christ Like" everything would go a lot smoother... I know I don't have any room to speak and also not judging anyone. I've never really joined in on the TD, but I look at what goes on and it's not always that cool... On the first page Christian and Jimmy had some good words to say. As I've said, I've never joined in much, but I would like to sometime... Ever think about new MVers getting on and having them see us fighting on here?? That could get them to leave and wonder if this really is a good Christian website.. I have a friend who's not allowed on here because of that.. Sorry if you take this the wrong way... Just my two cents. =)

Is it I.N. you're referring to?

Yes, her parents didnt like some of the things they saw.

Hmm…okay.

I agree with Dani on this one. Although she has had her moments in the past, she's been getting better. There has been a lot of sarcastic jokes on here, and I find it distracting when I read the threads. I mean really guys? Does everything have to be a joke? I can understand when the conversation has kinda gone down, and when nothing is going on, but when there is a big conversation, is it really okay to insult people in jest by calling them liars? That's a pretty big insult in a theological discussion, and you guys are taking it lightly! Can't you ever be serious? I don't care if you're "deadpool", Noah, cause in the real world I know that's not you and theological discussions are reality, not play! Same with you, Sam.

Speaking the truth is a DP thing?!

What you gonna do? Have your long-haired girly profile shoot me with a straw?

And Deadpool is capitalized.

However, I am not completely beyond voice of reason. You do have a point that I am very sharp in my arguments. But seeing as I have no reason to discuss this with you, I shall proceed to the person who is being wronged by my speech patterns.

Again with the jokes! Whenever I think about this I think of the song Sick of It by Skillet. I'm sick and tired of the jokes, and I want to get rid of them. And also, who said that? Dani? I told you she's getting better, and calling someone a liar because they disagree with you is basically the same thing.

He's sick and tired of the jokes! Let us be rid of them! Let us keep each other accountable that we have not told or laughed at any jokes since this command was given! Let humor be derived from all our hearts (some of us didn't have it to begin with, actually) and let Ian sing Sick of It for us!

Though I think what you've said on the Rapture topic is completely against everything the Bible teaches, I do apologize for accusing you with deplorable straw-man arguments.

Though I think what you've said on the Rapture topic is completely against everything the Bible teaches, I do apologize for accusing you with deplorable straw-man arguments.

I forgive you :)

That's not exactly what I meant. I find your jokes elsewhere on the forums funny, but not on the theological discussions. :)

That's not exactly what I meant. I find your jokes elsewhere on the forums funny, but not on the theological discussions. :)

That's my biggest problem. I'm so used to being ridicules, I'm fine with it, anywhere but the Theology forums. And it's also not something that exactly indicates that this is a Christian forum.

That's not exactly what I meant. I find your jokes elsewhere on the forums funny, but not on the theological discussions. :)

That's my biggest problem. I'm so used to being ridicules, I'm fine with it, anywhere but the Theology forums. And it's also not something that exactly indicates that this is a Christian forum.

Yeah, because being judgmental and intolerant is.

And is Christianity tolerant? Sure, you can go to heaven, even though you don't believe there's a God. Oh, that's fine, you can believe what you want, we don't mind, we just wanna luv you…

Christianity is not tolerant.

Neither is it judgmental, and, believe me, I'm working on it. It's part of my personality, and I'm really trying hard to root it out, but you're making it ten times harder for me.

And is Christianity tolerant? Sure, you can go to heaven, even though you don't believe there's a God. Oh, that's fine, you can believe what you want, we don't mind, we just wanna _luv_ you... Christianity is _not_ tolerant...................................

I thought I was the only one who made stupid, nonsensical, and ridiculous straw-man arguments.

It appears we are not alone in this world.

B.W., I didn't expect even you would accuse Sam of that. You never cease to surprise me.

Dani: Your thing about "going to heaven without believing in God" isn't logical there. Sam and someone who blieves there is no God are two different things.

Everybody: Come on! Please!

Wow. Thank you so much for acting as if my disagreeing with you makes me a heretic! That's so helpful!

IKR? I mean, that's what the Crusades proved!

Hm…let's see…you could…I dunno…maybe…understand the fact that people will think differently than you, and accept that? Or, am I asking too much?

Sam! Please!

Wow. Thank you _so_ much for acting as if my disagreeing with you makes me a heretic! That's so helpful! *Laugheth* IKR? I mean, that's what the Crusades proved! *You've been playing AC too much! The crusaders were much better than those (horrible adjectives) muslims!* Hm...let's see...you could...I dunno..._maybe_...understand the fact that people will think differently than you, and _accept_ that? Or, am I asking too much?