Is Magic in books/movies Okay for Christians?

Prompted by the many discussions our "youth group" at out church has had over the issue, I figured we might as well discuss it here: Is Magic, in books and movies, okay for Christians? Are the Harry Potter movies/books appropriate for Christians? What about even the Narnia books, with their use of magic?

Discuss!

My parents have never wanted us children to read the Narnia books or The Lord of the Rings because of this very reason. Though I don't have the time now to explain much, I do want to state that I understand my parents reasons for this and hold to them myself - rather strongly. It is my personal conviction, that if we are not sure about a topic (in this case, the reading of magic) to shy away from it. Can't say more, because I'm out of time….

About your second question - I have no idea who Harry Potter is, so I can't answer that.

I think it depends on the purpose of the magic. For instance, the use of magic in the Narnia series is very minimal and is only use to show all the more how powerful God is. The books are an allegory, and the magic contained in the story is not at all the focus. Rather, the magic serves as an amplifier as to the miracles of God's love and salvation. I personally believe that books such as this are appropriate to read (this is just my conviction). As to the Harry Potter books, I would say that they are very different from the Narnia series (As a disclaimer, I have never read the Harry Potter books myself). The Harry potter books tend to put more of an emphasis on the magic itself, rather than on its purpose. The Potter books do not have a Christian background. The magic contained in them is just that: empty magic. Used for no purpose, it seems to tempt the reader to envision the power they can have without God. This, in my opinion, is not a good thing.
My opinion on books in general is that it is fine to read books that are not explicitly Christian, for they can greatly help us to see the world around us and to show us how truly blessed we are to have a relationship with God, but if a book written without the purpose to glorify God makes use of a concept that God condemns (without the proper thoughts), then I would say that it would not be encouraging or uplifting to read that book.

@jimmy Waters: I agree with you for the most part, except maybe what you said about the Narnia series. Leviticus 20:6 says:
And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.
I think in the Narnia series that the magic is used both to good and evil ends, and is therefore not portrayed as a good or evil thing itself. (Both the White witch and Aslan used magic, but their motives and accomplishments were opposite.)
P.S @all I do like, and have read and would recommend (to the appropriatly aged) both The Lord of the Rings and Narnia books.

Octavius addressed this issue here:

http://talesofkhartur.wordpress.com/on-a-completely-different-note/

But if a book is based in a different world, and their "magic" comes from a force that is not related to demons, can we say it's witchcraft?

So, in your opinion, Aslan's (the lion in C.S. Lewis' Narnia series who represents Jesus) ability to restore life via "magic" to those struck by sin is motivated and controlled by demonic forces? Also, would talking animals in parables, short stories, and novels count as magic? I am merely asking for clarification. :)

I agree with Leah(AstronomerLeah). From the Peleg Chronicles (book three - Loresmen) there are two characters that have a conversation about magic.

Suzie: "Satan likes to make evil things look good so that we'll be more likely to pursue them, and in so doing we disobey God and wander away from Him. Woe to them that call evil good, and good evil. . .See, Grandmother Lois used to say that magic is like Satan's imitation of God's wondrous power. If we want to know the future, or see one loaf of bread turned into many, or any other wonders that man can not normally do, then it is only okay to seek for such things directly through God himself. Whether or not He does them is completely up to Him, as He sees fit. But trying to make those things happen ourselves - magic - is to make ourselves like God."

Percival: "But, if someone were going to use magic to make an extra loaf of bread, so that they could give it to someone, isn't that good magic?"

Suzie: "No, it is disobedience; because God said not to do it at all. . ."

You should read the whole series!!! My mom has read the Narnia books, and she said that the Peleg Chronicles are MUCH more interesting.

Did any of you actually read the article from Octavius that Sam posted? Or are you merely going off of what you already believe and have been taught about Harry Potter and other fictional magic?

I think we might be misunderstanding each other a little bit. :) For clarification, what would you say your definition of magic is? If you say that magic is derived from demonic power, than I would say that, thankfully, that is not how Aslan (Jesus) operates. There is a difference between witchcraft and miracles. Many have used the term "magic" to describe both. It is my opinion that the mere word "magic" should not deter Christians. Witchcraft, especially when a focus, is wrong. Magic, however, is, in my opinion, a very vague term that can mean many things, both good and bad. We should never be deterred by a word. Rather, we should be appalled by any action that doesn't glorify God or His Word. Taking Narnia as an example, an allegory depicting God's love, while using the word "magic" doesn't necessarily correlate to demonic power, and thus should not call for a complete and utter shunning (of course, that is entirely a personal decision).

In summary, I am just asking for your definition so that we can sort of be on the same page. :)

Hey, I just decided that I'm going to start a radio drama where the main character is this old, inventor guy. He makes this time machine that can take you back to any point in history, particularly Biblical history. The thing is, he never tells anybody how it works. Some kids might even be lead to speculate that it's "magic"!

Oh. Wait. That's already been done. It's called Adventures in Odyssey. And the Imagination Station.

So… by your logic, anything in fiction that is, or could be, called magic is demonic and totally anti-Christian. I really don't see how you can hold that argument consistently.

Let's try an original one this time. Well, not really original, because Octavius came up with this, not me. But I'll give it as an example anyway. Let's say that there's this mountain called "Magic Mountain." When you get to the top of it, if you clap your hands three times, you can fly!! And it's called magic.

Does the fact that I just made that up make me a proponent of witchcraft and Satanism? Am I anti-Christian now?

Really, we all know that the Bible condemns witchcraft. You guys don't need to keep posting verses about that; nobody's going to argue with that. I think Sam's question was really more along the lines of, is the "magic" that we find in fiction today the "witchcraft" of the Bible? If any of you had read Octavius's article, you may have been better informed as to how to deal with this question.

Just read Octavius's article, wouldn't be surprised at anyone here not doing so, because it was indirectly linked (some aren't allowed to go to links), and was somwhat lengthy. I thought it was very good, he gave his veiw on the subject very well, excepting that his reasoning did not include direct scriptural refrencing (unless I read right through it).
@COS, I think your example of the Imagination station is a little off, I can only say keep in mind that no one actually goes back in history, they only imagine it.
@jimmy W, I would say that
*In real life there are people who do magic, dealing with demons, and that would be called witchcraft.
*There are also people who do magic, slight of hand etc., who have no powers but physical deceptive skill.

*In books such as LOTR and Narnia, there are good people who use magic to perform good deeds, and there are bad people who use magic to perform bad deeds. In these books which have been written from an omniscient third person point of view (where the we can trust what the author is saying, to be true in the story) thus, we can trust what the author says about the charecter of the person, and we must conclude that (at least in my examples I would argue) that the magic is a form of power not associated with demons and linked with the sinful practices of real life.

The Narnia book is called "The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe". But, you can't bring Lord of the Rings into this discussion, as there is no magic( as coming from demonic sources) in those books. If I remember correctly, Iluvatar( the God-figure) created the Ainur, in order to reveal to them a part of his mind, or to express his holiness, if you will. It was expressed in music, in three themes, and sung by the Ainur. The first theme was created by Iluvatar, but developed by the Ainur, and presented the form of creation, but was marred by the discord of Melkor, an Ainu, given greater wisdom and power than the others, but desired to put things into Being himself, and created discord within the Music. Iluvatar defeated this discord in the second theme, which created Arda, Middle-Earth. The third theme, in which the Ainur didn't participate, dealt with the creation of the Children of Iluvatar( Men) and their history up until the Dominion of Men.

Okay, now, when the Ainur were drawn to the Vision( the visual image of the Music, as each Ainu only knew the part of the Music that they had sung, but in the Vision could percieve the whole pattern), Iluvatar gave it Being, creating Middle-Earth. 14 of the greatest of the Ainur(without Melkor, but I won't go into why now[ but being a Satan-figure, you can imagine]) chose to go to Middle-Earth, and fulfil the Vision which of Iluvatar, and were called the Valar, and settled in Valinor. Many of the lesser Ainur also came, and Gandalf was one of them. So, in conclusion, Gandalf's "magic", is not supernatural power that comes from demons, but from Iluvatar, God if you will. So Gandalf only acts within His will, and thus has power, but only that which was given to him. I hope I've explained this well, if I haven't Octavius can explain this better than I can.

@Astronomer Leah, I won't encourage you to do something in disobedience to your parents, but I would say that you would understand it alot better, if you read the or listened to the audio drama of Narnia. I don't see a good reason (including the reasons given above, but barring parental and consience reasons) that someone wouldn't. I don't want to argue by lack of evidence though. In Narnia the White Witch (which you mentioned; she is part of the title of the most popular book, 'The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe') she is a witch that uses the magic, [which Aslan (some say the Christ figure) also uses; and was written at the dawn of time etc. and seems to be amoral (lacking good or evil)] The witch uses her powers of magic solely to evil; decieving and destroying, but Aslan uses the power of magic to work good, create (narnia), ressurect (himself), and restore the creatures under the witches spell.

@All yes reading it might be a bother(maybe not), but I encourage you to read Octavius's article.

I agree with Astronomer Leah.
If you see many references in the Scriptures that deal with magic and in all of them God commands us to stay away from and have nothing to do with it. I agree that we want to be above reproach and even though some books MAY be OKAY. We should always strive for the best and to please God in everything, rather than settle for what may or may not be okay we should focus only on what is honoring to the Lord.

@All: On a slightly related note, I think we all need to decide whether it is possible for our faith to be edified though books that contain "magic"? I guess what I am saying is, does reading books that contain "magic" always result in a blow to our faith. Is it possible to read a book that contains "magic" and finish with a new appreciation for our LORD?

Here is my personal opinion. The answer to the above question is yes. it is possible. I do not say a majority of books that use the word "magic" are edifying or detrimental, only that there are some of both. The Narnia series, for me, really served to edify me and to bring me closer to God. I really believe that C.S. Lewis' works do not deal with magic dealt by demonic forces. It has really impacted me in a good way throughout my life. As for the Lord of the Rings (which I have read) and Harry Potter (which I haven't), I would say that this is probably not the case. While an incredibly interesting read, the Lord of the Rings really did nothing for me personally in aiding my relationship with God. From what I hear about Harry Potter, the same would likely be true for that series as well.

I believe, in conclusion, that God calls us to fill our minds with things that are edifying and which serve to bring us closer to him. If one of those things happens to be a book that is neither evil nor detrimental but contains the word "magic" than we should not shy away from it on that account alone. However, which books are edifying or not is completely left to the individual Christian's conscience. Having not read them, we really can't pass judgment upon them (that is why I don't claim my Harry Potter analysis is completely correct). What do you all think? :)

Nice job summarizing the Lord of the Rings, Eriestan Name-Changer.
In the LotR, for all of those who have not read it, witchcraft is nowhere protrayed as good. It is always the part of the bad guy to use witchcraft or etc., and never the part of the good guy.
There are 'supernatural' things that people do, but that is always because they have that power because of who they are. You have to remember that in Middle-Earth there are Ainur (both Valar and Maiar), who are the most powerful, and thus can do things that would be considered 'supernatural' (they are basically angels). Gandalf was one of the Maiar, so he could do things normal people couldn't. In the movies much of this was lost, and he was made to look much more like a traditional wizard (because there was no context of his type of being).
Next would come the Eldar (elves) who would have greater powers than men, and could thus be said to use "magic" (NOT witchcraft); but this is because of who they are: elves. And so they can do things that normal people can't.
Next come Men, in the order of power. Because of intermarriages with elves, some had greater power than others. But they are normally pretty normal, and unless they're bad guys, they don't ever use magic.
But never ever ever is there an instance of any good guy using witchcraft, as it is biblically defined. The bad guys do use it, but it is ALWAYS (sorry for the caps) portrayed as bad….and, you know what? Good always wins in the end.
As far as what you said, Jimmy Waters, I would agree that the Lord of the Rings will not necessarily progress your walk as a Christian. But I will not detract from it either, and it is possible to strengthen one's Christian perspective from the series. Though Tolkien wrote from a decidedly Christian perspective, there is no overt Christ-figure in Middle-Earth, and salvation is practically by works (very, very unfortunate). However, the distinctively CHRISTIAN theme of self-sacrifice is in much of Tolkien's works. He also portrays a CHRISTIAN view of providence (all things working in accordance to the will of God, even though evil does its level best to wreck His plans).
All in all, Tolkien's works have little to no drawbacks for me as a Christian reader; and those few drawbacks would mainly be on a theological level and not on a textual or content-based level.
In the Lord of the Rings…good is good and bad is bad. That's what we should look for when it comes to recreational literature. (Any literature, really.)
On top of that, the literary quality of Tolkien's works are very high. But I won't go on about that…..you'd quickly get bored, I'm sure, mainly because all I'd be saying is that I like it.

As for The Chronicles of Narnia…I have more reservations about this series than I do about tLotR. Lewis himself was not very orthodox in his theology, and his use of the concept of magic is much more sketchy, I personally believe. Some parts of some of his books carry theological implications that are very great and unbiblical. But lest this turn you away from the books…
They are explicitly Christian. The use of magic has no relation to devils (and thus is not witchcraft as biblically defined). Good is good and bad is bad. The lines are drawn and clearly defined. And yes, as Jimmy said, one can draw spiritual benefit from the series.

Much of this discussion comes down to what you see as the place of literature in the life of a Christian….but more on that in a later post (hopefully.) Not sure when I'll get back on here.

I just remembered that someone said I didn't give much Scriptural support for my arguments in my article about magic in fantasy.
You're right, and I probably should have included some. But at the same time, I'm pretty sure I took the basic Biblical principles and applied them to the subject pretty well. I just took the article off my blog and put another in its place. So the link above probably won't work anymore. But I'll just post it in this comment in case someone didn't get a chance to read it. (Btw, the new article I just posted is one about whether premarital kissing is wrong or not. Check it out at www.talesofkhartur.wordpress.com [if you're able].)

Okay, here's the article:

Harry Potter
Or,
Witchcraft in Fantasy

This is a complicated issue, so I want to lay down some basic groundwork before I get down to the nitty-gritty about the actual move series.

1. What is witchcraft?
   Biblically defined, witchcraft is any form of dealing with demons, whether it’s communicating with them, using them to call up spirits, being possessed of one, or etc. Anything unless you’re casting them out. Something I see in many people is a basic, if unspoken, disbelief in the reality of witchcraft—especially among people like myself. This must be driven from our minds. Witchcraft is real. Demons are real. Witches, wizards, warlocks, necromancers, whatever you want to call them—are real. This isn’t just a scare tactic. I’m just stating a fact that for many of us, and thank God is it so, seems so far away or irrelevant that we can conveniently ignore it.

2. Things to consider when judging the worth—or worthlessness—of any movie.

a. Most (though I think I could safely say all) secular movies will have “objectionable elements” i.e. sin, evil, wickedness, and etc., particularly to the Christian viewer. Wrong views of marriage, love, intimacy, witchcraft, rebellion, the roles of men and women in society and the family—all of these and more permeate much of today’s secular movies. Which leads me too…

b. Witchcraft is a sin…just like all the rest. While it must be admitted that there are definite degrees of heinousness in all of these areas, witchcraft is still “just a sin.” Not that that is a small thing, though. No, not at all. But it seems to me that so often we view witchcraft as the ‘cardinal sin’ when it comes to fantasy, books or movies. Do you allow your children to watch movies in which the good guys kiss (please don’t take that wrong), and yet staunchly refuse to let any form of ‘good magic’ onto the screen? Do you watch movies in which the hero is rebellious and disobedient (but of course it all works out in the end, right?) and yet hold to the standard that any hint of ‘good magic’ is inherently impermissible? To me, that seems a double standard. I believe one can watch a movie in which the hero kisses his girlfriend (and disapprove), as much as watch a movie in which the hero uses ‘good magic’ (and disapprove). Watching a movie with sinful elements in it is not automatically sinful. It can very well be a waste of time, a stumbling block, a conscience-hardening agent; all of which are bad. But it’s not automatically sinful. And a movie with sinful elements is not automatically, as a whole, sinful. It merely contains sin, which must be guarded against in all of its many forms. No, I’m not saying “watch an R-rated movie as long as you disapprove the bad parts.” No. If the core of the plot is based on blatant sin, your safest move is to stay away.

1. The nitty-gritty. So what about ‘good magic’? What about ‘good witches’? What about Harry Potter?

a. Good magic?
No such thing. Real-world magic is in reality witchcraft. I’m not talking about sleight-of-hand tricks. I’m talking about real supernatural events. That type of magic is never good, and to portray it as good in any way is sinful. But so many times, magic, in a fantasy world, takes on a different meaning. It is a ‘power’ to tap into, and is not (necessarily) associated with demons. In the real world, that’s not real magic, that’s a fairy-tale. So to portray that as good is not wrong. Good guys can use ‘magic’ in a fantasy world, as long as that ‘magic’ isn’t real witchcraft, and that’s fine.
Harry Potter: If Harry gets his power from fantasy magic, a mysterious force that is not related to devils, it’s okay. But if he gets his power from devils, that’s…not okay.

b. Good witches?
No such thing. A witch is someone who associates with and works through demons/devils. By definition, they cannot be good. To portray any such person as good is bad. But if a ‘witch’ works his stuff by a ‘special power’ not related to devils, he’s not really a witch, and not bad, merely a fantasy character with ‘amazing superpowers.’
Harry Potter: If he uses real witchcraft, to portray him as a ‘good witch’ is to twist the truth. If he uses a fantasy ‘good magic’ not related to devils, he’s a “good witch” i.e. a ‘fantasy character with amazing superpowers.’

c. Harry Potter?
Will I watch Harry Potter? Not in the near future (if ever). My parents disapprove the series, and for good reasons, so I won’t watch them. End of story. However, I don’t think it is wrong to watch them, even if Harry Potter really uses real witchcraft! That may be a surprise, but Batman has a girlfriend. Not the best. And he kisses her. Bad. He is the good guy, the hero, and something sinful he does is made to look good. Bad. [Maybe we should call him Badman, huh? jk] But I still watch(ed) it, and I don’t think it is wrong to watch it. In fact, I liked it. Quite a bit.
If Harry Potter doesn’t use real witchcraft, there is less reason not to watch it, the same as if Badman…uh, I mean Batman—if he didn’t have a girlfriend who he kissed. Or Aragorn. Or Caspian. Or…you get the point.
Though I don’t think it is wrong to watch Harry Potter, I do not believe that it is right or fine to portray witchcraft as possibly good, or to portray the good guy as a “good” witch. That is bad. But it’s not necessarily bad to watch a movie with stuff like that in it.
So if Harry uses real witchcraft, the movie series is BAD. But it’s not BAD to watch them.

1. More nitty-gritty.
   Harry Potter has adverse effects on some people, getting them interested in the real-world occult practices. That is bad.
   But on the other hand, many other movies have adverse effects on many people in other areas: bad views of ‘falling in love,’ no regulations for pre-marital intimacy (from hugs and kisses to the most blatant expressions), and the list could go on. And all that is bad, too.
   To be consistent, if you don’t watch Harry Potter because of witchcraft being portrayed as good (assuming that Harry uses the real kind), don’t watch Batman because of the kissing scenes being portrayed as good. They are both evil made to look good or enjoyable (yes; horror of horrors, in case you haven’t already guessed, I do believe that premarital kissing is wrong, see my article on my blog). Granted, there are differences between the two examples, but I think you get the point.

2. Common opinions I don’t agree with.

a. “Don’t watch ANY secular movies.”
They’re sure to be unbiblical in at least one area, a potential stumbling-block; so don’t watch them. No double standard there, which I like.
But in many cases, the plot is what shines through in a movie, and is why we entertain ourselves with it. The sinful parts are a part of life and should be ignored, shunned, discussed, and argued against from Scripture. Please don’t think I’m saying it’s okay to watch “just anything” for the sake of the plot. I’m not saying that.

b. “Everyone has their own opinion.”
Typical pacifist’s quick way out of an argument…and dangerously close to the pit of relativism. True, we all have opinions; but so does God. And His trumps ours.
We must take care to discern what His opinion (will) is before we form our own.

c. “I don’t have an opinion; I know it’s wrong.”
Typical authoritarian’s overbearing ‘argument’ to blast away all opposing viewpoints…and not much of a persuasion technique, or much of an argument.
No more comment…I know that opinion is bad.

In summary, if Harry uses real witchcraft and is still portrayed as a “good” witch, the series is fundamentally bad and twisting the truth. If he is merely using a fantasy power that has no relation to devils, it is not bad to represent him as the good guy.
In the first or second case, it is not inherently sinful to watch the movie series, provided your motives are right and you’re not just wasting your time, or watching them against your parents wishes.

As ever, very respectfully yours,

Karthmin Kharturai (my blogging name)

Here's another thought. We don't watch physical sin on the screen (serious intimacy) because of the optical defilement we would necessarily undergo in watching it, and because it is sin to look on another person's body that way. But with witchcraft (even if on the side of the good guys), there is a completely different element that makes it in no way sinful to watch someone casting a spell…unless we find ourselves tempted by such portrayals. It is wrong to believe such things are good and right, but it is not wrong to watch them (as it is to watch the sinful things mentioned above).
Just an additional thought.
Got to go now.

BOO! :-P

I have slightly reformed my opinion; I think "magic" is okay as long as it's not demonic. There can be a different definition of "magic" for fiction. But making witchcraft - which is always demonic - is inexcusable.

I know that nobody's going to be surprised at my answer. :-)
I think magic is okay in books and movies…as long as it's in a world created for magic. Like Narnia. Aslan created Narnia so that magic was native to it, but somehow it seems that magic in Narnia isn't the same as magic in our world. Or in other words, magic is something natural in Narnia, just like gravity is native to our world. But I don't think magic is good for our world. (Read "The Magician's Nephew" to find out more!) I like how, in the Narnia books, the witches are always-always-always the bad guys. Keeps me from being even remotely interested in magic in our world, since people who do magic in our world are basically either wizards or witches.
I've never seen Harry Potter and never hope to. Isn't the main good guy a wizard? And aren't wizards…well…bad guys?

I agree! In Narnia, "magic", is a natural law. You could discover it( like Thomas Edison and gravity), and use it.

I don't know that much about Harry Potter, but I think you're right. But I think that in the movies(and books), the characters have the "magic" inside them, and can only harness it with the aid of their wand. But I haven't seen any of the movies, or read the books, I'm going off what I've heard.

My only beef with magic in books/movies is that someone who is not spiritually mature enough may try to replicate such "magic" in the real world, by going to demonic sources. That is wrong. Which is why books and movies with "magic" can turn people off, because they feel that by reading/watching them, they are endorsing witchcraft. I personally believe that if you are discerning enough, you can watch/read these books/movies( I seem to get a weird pleasure out of using the slash mark today!) without compromising your faith, and in good conscience. But if your parents won't allow you to, I won't look down on you( as I myself am not allowed to watch/read Harry Potter).

Hope it helps!

Just a few questions: Why is the purpose of this magic in books, and is it glorifying God? I see no problem in God using "magic" turning Moses's rod into a snake, but I believe that the world's counterfeit magic in Sci-fi movies, books, Santa Clause, etc, mocks God and his true power to do supernatural things. Only He can perform miracles.

I have to quickly comment, C4C, and apologize to you. I clicked on this thread when I saw you had posted and expected to see some more mad ravings from you, because I figured you would have a strong opinion on this subject. Instead, I found this comment, and I was humbled.

I thank you for the way that you addressed your comment in a respectful way. And I am sorry for expecting worse from you. Will you forgive me? :)

However, the augment can be made that the Bible warns against the mixing of heathen things and Christen things.

“Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God.”- 2 Cor. 6:14-16

“Do not lay hands on anyone hastily, nor share in other people’s sins; keep yourself pure.”- 1 Tim. 5:22

“I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” - Gal. 5:16-21

And such is the case with Christmas and Easter… but that is a completely different topic.

I know, and hold in esteem, many people who maintain such positions. But I don’t put myself in the position to judge those who don’t agree with this either. I have read “The Chronicles of Narnia” and watched “Rigoletto” both of which mention (if not deal directly with) magic. Also “The Princess Bride” (which mocks at the idea of miracles).

Sadly it is very easy to become desensitized by sin and want to defend it. (Galatians 5:9)

@Cowboy4Christ~ I want to say the same things that ChiefOfSinners said. I felt the same way; will you forgive me, too? EXCELLENT comment!!! I love the way you said that!!! Although I don't think that sci-fi is wrong, because it's not using really using supernatural or demonic powers - it's just that weird things are happening. With fiction, the impossible can become possible. But I think that witchcraft made to look "cool" is dead-wrong.

Look, I'm learning more from all of you then you'll ever learn from me! Thanks for the encouraging comments, my spiritual giant friends:)

I don't know much about this, and it's something I've thought about but never really fully understood. However, I do think it's scary when we see Sc-Fi movies showing what is going to happen very soon in the rapture, but rather portraying it as an alien abduction, preparing the masses of unsaved populace to think it was just a mes alien abduction, not Christ returning for His bride. I also mentioned Santa Clause, I'm leery of that because Santa magically knows who's been good and bad…scary when you think of Christ setting apart the wheat and the tares…It's a little to similar for me…but I don't know…maybe I am taking that one too far:)

hey, don't mean to butt into the conversation, but I have thought about this a little and come up with the conclusion that magic is okay in movies especially when it is symbolizing Christ and things that point to Him like Narnia for instance. I find those stories very moving.

I wouldn't know, I don't watch movies–especially those with magic in them:) Personally, I think it's very rare when magic glorifies Christ, but I'm sure it can…I don't have anything against what you just said or the movie you just mentioned, although I haven't seen it:)

you should read the books… I read the books first, then watched the movies, but the movies are not nearly as good as the books! yeah imagine I would have enough time to do all that…but anyways, the books are a series called "The Chronicles of Narnia" I like them a lot, there is SO much symbolism pointing to Christ's life!

Do they have an abbreviated version? Just kidding:) I have to prioritize in what I read, and I personally would rather use my time reading about Christ's life in my King James Bible then something symbolizing it… :) Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying it's evil necessarily!

I agree, just saying I don't think the magic in those books is evil because the whole story points to Christ. But yes, that would be like dwelling on the old covenant sacrifices in stuff instead of focusing on what they point to – Christ's ultimate sacrifice. sorry that doesn't really have anything to do with this topic, just had to say it.

not trying to pick a fight lol :)

Okay, I get it now. The only sci-fi movie I've ever seen is Time Changer. I highly recommend it; it's a Christian movie about being careful what propositions you put forth, because they could greatly affect the future. It talks about the rapture, but doesn't mock it. (It's about time travel, and the man who uses the machine says at the end, "We must use it for good.") I've never heard about the metaphor Cowboy4Christ mentioned. Yeah, if that's the way it is, I agree, we're making fun of the rapture, which, although it will be joyous and fearless for the believes, will also be a very serious event.

I've seen that movie, too! Isn't it cool?

My view of Narnia's magic:
I see the magic of Aslan as miracles of God in this world, not white magic or something. Supernatural power, which God does have. Magic done by bad guys is real in this world, and I think that it is fine as long as it is not portrayed as good and not focused on too much.

I'm not sure if anyone looks at this anymore, but I would like to know what you think is wrong with watching/reading about magic. Would you call Jesus's miracles magic? What would reading/watching things about magic make you do/think that is bad? just wondering?

1) Jesus' miracles are supernatural power given Him by God Himself. No "magic" there.

2) If a book or movie encourages you to go to demonic sources for power, that would be wrong, and it would be wrong for Christians to partake in such entertainment.

what is the difference between magic and supernatural power given by God?

This is probably not a very good definition because I just came up with it on the spot, but I think it may be the difference between God using you as an instrument of His supernatural power for His purposes (God is in control), instead of you trying to use God's (or any) supernatural power as an instrument for your own purposes (you are trying to be in control).

Again, feel free to correct me. This was just the best I could come up with right now.

I think that is a pretty good distinction. Do you think that it is bad for christians to veiw/read about magic?

Perhaps we should make a distinction between "witchcraft magic" and "fantasy magic". I tend to think that the magic portrayed in many fantasy fiction books (Narnia, etc.) is very unlikely incline anyone toward become a practicing witch or something, whereas books with "witchcraft magic" (realistic sounding stories set in this world instead of another?) should maybe be treated with more caution. Trying to practice magic is, of course, very bad and condemned in the Bible, but I do think that is quite different than the magic in some fantasy story when a little girl goes out of her own world into a fantasy world where she drinks tea with a faun, and her siblings have dinner with talking beavers, and the king is a lion (and the whole thing is obviously just an allegory and a quite well written one at that).

Do you think that it is bad for Christians to read about Muslims or people's strange theories about us evolving from apes? I guess it depends on if that is an area they are not strong in yet (I probably would hold off on telling my kids about Darwin's theory of evolution until I was pretty sure they had the creation story straight). So, for instance, if I knew that there was someone on here who had trouble with superstitions of ghosts in their closet, or were deathly afraid of someone putting a spell on them, or got nightmares from reading about pink elephants riding on clouds, I would not recommend any fantasy books to them, just to make sure I wasn't causing a brother to stumble. In fact, I probably wouldn't even recommend Winnie the Pooh, because it does have a rather terrifying heffalump in it.
For myself, I would be more worried of wasting valuable time filling my head with a lot of fantasy (most of which won't help real life situations much), than thinking it might turn me "to the dark side".

In fact, I probably wouldn't even recommend Winnie the Pooh, because it does have a rather terrifying heffalump in it.

Margaret, I don't know anyone else who has quite the same way with words as you do. It's a pleasure to be acquainted with you. :)

what is the difference between magic and supernatural power given by God?

I can't believe anyone could even think this thought ^ !

Magic is a demonic thing. Supernatural power from God is a Godly thing. is that a good enough distinction?

Margaret, I don't know anyone else who has quite the same way with words as you do.

Same here! She explains it so well! :)

Margaret, I don't know anyone else who has quite the same way with words as you do.

Same here! She explains it so well! :)

Narnia an allegory? http://thinklings.org/?post_id=6275

Witchcraft: the practice of magic; the use of spells and the invocation of spirits.

Only once in all seven books did one of the children ever use magic (The voyage of the dawn treader). all the other instancs of magic its ether evil, other privileged and/or limited people/animals (and even then their not dealing with spirits), or Aslan (the god figure).

Of Magic he learned only the theory, for Doctor Cornelius said the practical part was not proper study for princes. "And I myself," he added, "am only a very imperfect magician and can do only the smallest experiments." ~Prince Caspian. chapter four.