Pledging allegiance

Should we pledge allegiance to the flag, the country we live in, etc? Or should we only "pledge our allegiance" to God??

Discuss!

(edit: I don't really participate in the TD topics, but wanted to put this one out for discussion)

First off, I don't really participate in any of the forums, and I may not comment on this one again, but here goes.
Personally, I do not pledge allegiance to the flag, country, etc. This is for two main reasons.
First, I don't want to put my allegiance there. I love my country, the people, the freedoms I still enjoy, the land, the sky, the culture (well, usually), but I do not pledge my allegiance to it. My allegiance belongs to King Jesus and that is enough to me.
Second, the "Pledge of Allegiance" is essentially meaningless (how can you be loyal to a flag?). I understand it to be referring to the ideal America somewhere floating above our heads. It is a pledge to an abstract, nonexistent entity and therefore (in my opinion) a waste of breath. This is simply my preference and I don't hold to it as an essential doctrine.
However, I find this an excellent place to bring up my pet peeve of the patriotism of the modern church. I do believe that saying the pledge of allegiance in church (as part of the Sunday service) or singing the national anthem as a hymn during worship is backwards and at least very close to wrong. The Church (note the capital "C") owes nothing to the civil government. Its members most certainly do, but the church and the state are on equal ground and neither does homage to the other, but rather to God.

Very good response. I wasn't sure what I believed on this topic, but after reading your post, I think I agree with you. :)

I would actually have to disagree here.

Ultimately, the real issue issue at stake is that of patriotism. There is nothing wrong in showing support for one's country. After all, it was created by God to be our authority and to preserve us from danger. God tells us that we ought to pray for our leaders, and this does not imply that we are to ignore their God-given authority. We can be proud of our country, and we can pledge to defend what it stands for, for God has given it to us.

My Father is in the military, and he joined not to uphold an abstract nothingness - a castle in the sky - but to preserve a very real way of life that others (radical Islamists, etc.) would like to take away. The United States has done much to make us a land in which we can worship God. As a result, when we pledge allegiance, we are not breathing air, nor are we supplanting God; instead, we are both thanking Him for the leadership he has given and pledging to uphold that way of life which he has blessed us with.

Our fundamental difference is what a pledge means. I believe that a pledge is in no way declaring one's worship. It is simply indicative of support and devotion. This is not devotion as in "all I am, body and soul, is yours, America." Rather, it is declaring that we stand resolved not to allow our God-granted freedoms to be taken from us. As such, Christians can pledge allegiance.

I would, by the way, definitely agree with you about the pledge of allegiance in Church. The pledge in not wrong in and of itself, but I agree that during worship, it would generally distract. As for singing of patriotic hymns, I would agree that it does seem out of place. That, however, is merely out of custom and not because it really is out of place. If one looks at the words of those songs, one will, I believe, see that they are both patriotic hymns of praise. Much as David praises God for deliverance, so do many what we would call "patriotic hymns" speak of the Lord's hand in deliverance. While they can be used as one's country, many can also be seen as a direct praise of the Lord.

I do not participate in the pledge of allegiance for mostly the same reasons as Evie. Do you if I may ask?

P.S. I finally got back to you in the forum "Introduce yourself." under biblebee.

Thanks for responding!
I am working on a reply to you, but I am very slow with words and I'm going out of town soon, so it may be a little while.

Very glad to hear we agree, SBG and JW.

Very good response. I wasn't sure what I believed on this topic, but after reading your post, I think I agree with you. :)

^^^^^^^^What he said.

No pressure at all! I appreciated reading your thoughts on the issue. You seem to have put a lot of time into it. :)

And I responded :)

Evie: I agree with you, thank you for sharing!

I have to agree with Jimmy here.
I don't think there's anything wrong with pledging allegiance to your country as long as your first allegiance is to God. And I don't think it's pledging allegiance to 'a flag'…but what the flag stands for, the freedom that God has given us.

Just don't pledge allegiance to the AWANA flag, is all I'll say XD

That was hilarious! :) I agree, though, I never really understood why we had to pledge allegiance to the AWANA flag. The same goes with the Christian flag as well (at least, I have been to churches that had done that before). I never understood exactly why we did it. :)

I didn't know there was any such thing as the Christian Flag.

You can mostly find it in mega-churches or crusade meetings I hear, but apparently many places of worship have it. It is white and blue with a red cross, I believe. :)

I just searched it, and it's there all right…. white, with a blue corner containing a red cross. Hmm….well…I really don't what to think about that. :/

Our church has a Christian flag, is there even a pledge to go with it?
It helps with symmetry because the american flag is on the other side of the front of the church. I guess it makes more sense than having an American flag in a church, actually.

Here is the pledge for the Christian Flag. Again, I personally prefer not to pledge allegiance to it (as I find it rather strange. Still, it is doctrinally sound…).

I pledge allegiance to the Christian Flag, and to the Saviour, for whose kingdom it stands. One Saviour, crucified, risen and coming again, with life and liberty for all who believe.

Does AWANA really have a pledge of allegiance? Why? What would you even say in an AWANA pledge of allegiance?
"I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the Approved and Unashamed Workmen,
and to the little booklets for which it stands:
one program under God,
inexplicable,
with Bible verses and games for all."

Ah, thank you.

LOL!

Is that seriously the AWANA pledge?

It might be, but —as I just made it up— probably not.

No, it is this:

"I pledge allegiance to the Awana flag which stands for the Awana clubs whose goal is to reach boys and girls with the Gospel of Christ and to train them to serve Him."

:)

I think I like mine better.

Yours is certainly more amusing. :)

I must say that I did laugh out loud… I must need some duct tape. :S

I like yours better too. The poetry is much more sophisticated. :) And it's funny. I should send it to my AWANA-ing friends.
By the way, you said "hi" to me on some other thread and I lost you in a sea of doctrinal expositions, so I now return your "hi" and add that is really great to "see" you here too.
That AWANA pledge is my funny of the week!

Edit: OK, I'm back to respond to your post.
First of all, there are a couple of things I would like to clarify. First, none of the statements that I made in my original post or intend to make in this one are meant to be taken woodenly, nor do I hold them as doctrines or even firm convictions. Second, when I refer to the Pledge of Allegiance (POA), I am talking about the one that goes, "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America…etc."
Also, I most always agree with your posts on the forums and your communication of them. This is definitely an exception.

I agree with your first point. I certainly do not in the least advocate ignoring the authority of our governors, that would be wrong and unbiblical (if anything wrong isn't unbiblical).

I wish your father well in his endeavors in the military, it seems he has joined for good reasons. May his purpose come to pass.
However, I would argue that your statement, "The United States has done much to make us a land in which we can worship God" is incorrect. The US has done nothing to make itself anything good. God has blessed this nation in many ways from its very beginning, but neither the government nor the people have done or are doing anything that makes them in any way a better or more righteous nation. (You may not have intended for the statement to be read that way, and if so, I understand completely, please correct me. However, the rest of the paragraph hinges on that statement, so I will continue as though you meant it.) As a result of our government's lack of initiative in freedom, which is quickly becoming a war on freedom, pledging allegiance to the ideal of America is meaningless. This ideal does not exist, and the ideas of it vary from person to person. Therefore I called pledging allegiance breathing air. It is in some ways similar to what you said about pledging to the Christian flag.

I do not say that pledging allegiance is supplanting God. You are welcome to say the POA or the like all day long and it will neither disturb my conscience nor lessen my view of your godliness and good sense.

I also believe that a pledge does not declare one's worship but rather indicates support and devotion. What I do not see is how the POA can indicate resolve to stand fast in our freedoms. I still agree, though, that Christians may pledge allegiance.

As for singing of hymns, where I'm from, it is a common custom to sing patriotic hymns in church especially on Sundays near military holidays. It is also custom to pledge allegiance to the American flag in church. So I don't think it is custom that makes me dislike it, though that is possible.
These "hymns" differ from psalms in at least one way. David does not praise Israel for beauty, majesty, or righteousness. He prays for God's mercy on her, as in verse 4 of My Country Tis of Thee but he doesn't praise her excellence as in the other verses of the song.

I hope that post wasn't to long and boring. Thanks for your patience.

Does AWANA really have a pledge of allegiance? Why? What would you even say in an AWANA pledge of allegiance? "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the Approved and Unashamed Workmen, and to the little booklets for which it stands: one program under God, inexplicable, with Bible verses and games for all."

Hmm…. I like that! You'll have to suggest it to headquarters :P