Submission

Submission in this life is unavoidable. To parents, government, husbands, friends, or God, there is always someone over us (as Christians). So what if the authority is overbearing and harsh (so much that it is intruding on our "human rights")? Do you believe the Bible teaches that it is okay for rebellion (or other act besides humble submission) in this instance?

Could you not see it as trusting God's faithfulness in submitting?

Depends on what we're submitting to. Look at the persecuted church: they rebel every day against their government, just to worship God. Jesus was a rebel, rebelling against the legalism and spiritual apathy of the religious authorities of His day. When the government, or any authority, tells us to do something contrary to God's Law, we as Christians have an obligation to put God's Will first, and man's consequences later. Matthew 10:28 says "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." We should love and fear God so much, that we would rather die than to forsake Him.

You are right in what you said. I agree that if athority commands us to do something against God we should not. But I was thinking more about situations where the request is not sin, but the athority overbearing, taking away/intruding/threatening our "human rights"…

Edit- In other words, even when the athority is in the wrong by the way they handle things, are we still expected to submit?

In other words, even when the authority is in the wrong by the way they handle things, are we still expected to submit?

Yes, I believe that we are. Here is one of the verses that makes me think so.

1Peter 2:13-15: Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

Now we know that it does not mean every single decree, since we are to disobey the ones that directly contradict the Bible (e.g. quite a few passages in Acts). But every decree that does not contradict the Bible we are to obey, even if they are not necessarily supposed to do them, such as signing up for the draft (unless you believe fighting is always wrong), paying taxes on everything, etc.

And what about betrothal? If your parents wanted you to marry someone you didn't want to marry, should you anyways? What if you were forced to agree to betrothal?

And what about betrothal? If your parents wanted you to marry someone you didn't want to marry, should you anyways? What if you were forced to agree to betrothal?

No, you shouldn't, cuz when you marry someone, you promise to love them, and if you had to marry someone that you didn't want to, that would be a lie. Umm, I don't think that I would agree to be forced to do something so serious. I just would not go along with it.

Okay. But what if you were forced to agree to be forced? :P

And what about betrothal? If your parents wanted you to marry someone you didn't want to marry, should you anyways? What if you were forced to agree to betrothal?

No, you should not. They are overstepping their jurisdiction and commanding you to do something that they have no right to command. While we typically should obey whatever is commanded, that is something that they may not command.

Matthew 19:5: And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

I believe it is similar to the government telling you what church to go to. They may not directly be causing you to break God's law, but if you disagree with something about that church, then you should disobey since it is indirectly causing you to sin by attending a church that you think practices or believes something not in accord with the Bible. This is very similar. If you do not wish to marry someone, then you are by no means qualified to (since you are to love and respect your spouse), so therefore you would be sinning by marrying them since you could not properly fulfill your duties that God has commanded to do if you married that particular person. It would be in one sense unequally yoked because you do not wish to marry that person, and therefore will not likely be able to get along well with them. I certainly do not believe in marrying because of affections, but if you actually don't wish to marry someone, then it will not properly work in accordance with the way the Bible says it is to work. Basically if you are not loving that person in the way that the Bible commands you to for marriage, then you are sinning by marrying them anyhow, even if your parents command you to marry them.

Okay. But what if you were forced to agree to be forced? :P

^This is quoted from Aidan's post^ "No, you should not. They are overstepping their jurisdiction and commanding you to do something that they have no right to command. While we typically should obey whatever is commanded, that is something that they may not command. … If you do not wish to marry someone, then you are by no means qualified to (since you are to love and respect your spouse), so therefore you would be sinning by marrying them since you could not properly fulfill your duties that God has commanded to do if you married that particular person. It would be in one sense unequally yoked because you do not wish to marry that person, and therefore will not likely be able to get along well with them."

I am very sure that I would not let them force me.
But, I also know my parents would not force me to do that. :)

Sarah, I'd have to agree with Hiruko and say it depends on what you are submitting to. I think that we should obey authority, but when they go way overboard, I believe there is a limit. Think about the former slaves who ran away from their masters; were they wrong to not submit to authority and stay where they were? Were people who gave shelter to them wrong for not submitting to authority and turning them in?
Just for clarification, I don't think you're saying that :). I'm just giving some examples to demonstrate my point.