Did God make Evil?

how do you know that?

the serpent was Satan and obviously was evil!

sorry I mean how do you know that Satan had fallen from heaven before God made that command?

IK! That's what I said… Satan was in the garden as an evil serpent. He made the same offer to eve that he himself fell because of… "You will be as a god".

I'm not sure where this is going but I'm curious if you think that God created evil.

Okay Here is what I mean, I said ""Still in the beginning God made a Law, "don't eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil"
If you don't eat than that is good, if you do eat then that is bad. ""

God made that Command in chapter 2:16-17
Then we have the whole way to 3:1 before we are told that Satan is in the Garden.

I would say that Satan didn't Fall until after the sixth day of creation,
Because God said everything was very good.

Again I'm not saying that Lucifer wasn't already Satan in 2:16-17
I'm just wondering how you know that.

What I am saying is that, Evil became an option for Humans to choose
when God gave that Command.

"Evil became an option for Humans to choose when God gave that Command."

I agree; but I also believe that that was the only time where man had the choice to choose evil over good or vice versa; from then on, because Adam disobeyed, humans were bound to doing nothing but evil. That is, unless God chose to save them…. :)

You mean That without God Intervening there would have been no option to do Good? They wouldn't be able to help it?
Abel offered Sacrifices to God, wouldn't You consider that "good" or was God already intervening? When did God choose to save them Gen 3:15 ?
Thanks for commenting

Sorry for taking three days to get back to you. :) For your first two questions, I'm assuming you are referring to the Garden of Eden. If so, I believe that man was given a choice, and that it was his decision to do evil in that situation (though, of course, God knew that he would). However, as I said, after that first sin, the whole human race was defiled. No longer could man do good; unless God saved them. Abel's sacrifice was good, because God had already saved him. But he couldn't have been saved without God's intervention. I don't know when Adam, Eve, or Abel, were saved; just that they were. :)

Sorry it took me two days to get back to you. :)
I have to disagree with you, here is why.

Even though the world around us are not servants of God, some still think it is wrong to steal, and in not stealing, they are in essence doing "good". So even though the they are slaves to sin they can still do some things that appear to be "good". Although they can never be truly good (because no one is good but God) they can still do good things without being the servants of God. Does that make sense? or maybe you are talking about something entirely different and I'm just confused.

P.S. I would say Man has a sin Nature, when Adam fell sin became our dominant gene (allele if your taking biology) :) .

So failing to do evil is doing good? I don't see the logic in that. And doing such things as telling the truth, helping those in need, etc.–done by unbelievers–is not considered "good" in God's eyes, since it comes from an unbeliever. Every seemingly good thing that an unbeliever done is defiled by their basic sinfulness.

So are you saying that helping the needing is a sin?

Isn't "good" not to lie? Or in essence tell the truth?

I am sorry if I am breaking in on this conversation, but I think what SavedbyGrace is trying to say is that "good" in God's eyes isn't the same thing as "good" in ours. In God's eyes, "good" is anything that brings Him glory and brings honor to Him. In our eyes, "good" is something that is in accordance with God's law. Following the law is not necessarily doing good. An unbeliever can't do good because whatever he does is not for the purpose of bringing glory to God. According to man, he may have done good by following God's law, but he did it for a purpose that is not truly righteous.

A Christian can still perform actions that are not good in God's eyes, but, with the knowledge and the will to serve their Lord, they can actually do "good" actions because they truly desire to give God the glory.

This, I believe, is what the verse in question (and, correct me if I am wrong, SavedbyGrace), is trying to say. :)

Sorry once again if I needlessly intruded upon the question here.

Okay that makes more sense. But doesn't it glorify God to have people following his law? If they did it for a purpose that was truly righteous?

God is most glorified in showing mercy to sinners. But He is also glorified by displaying His power and wrath on those who disobey. No one keeps His law by nature, so until we are saved, we don't have the opportunity to glorify Him that way.

One word answer: GOD CREATED EVIL. Oh, was that three words? God in his Sovereignty created everything to magnify His name.

Where do you get that? Can you Biblically support that? I take the position that he didn't… everything he created was good… that doesn't include evil…

Poor God, the devil is getting him! Ouch, let's root for God. My poor God is up there wringing His hands, evil has evolved from out of nowhere! It has taken God by surprise! He acidentally created the serpent, He created the devil but…uh…the was I mistake. And uh…umm…When God says: "I make peace and CREAT EVIL I the Lord do all these things", God must be umm missing his teleprompter?

Be honest withyourself here, and be honest with the Bible and me brother!

Scriptural reference please?

EDIT: I looked up your reference and after a quick search, I found this, it's pretty well written:

http://www.gotquestions.org/Isaiah-45-7.html

Okay, look, C4C, I know you must think that everyone must feel absolutely compelled to bow down and worship you for your amazingly logical arguments…. but that's not what it's about. This thread is for debating and supporting your position from Scripture. I'm not saying I necessarily disagree with your view, but would you please not just expect us to take your word for it? And… I hate to tell you, but using ALL CAPS and derogatory language toward your opponents and their arguments really isn't going to make anyone want to be on your side… It makes me wish I wasn't on your side sometimes…

Isaiah 45:7: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

I'm sorry, I assumed you all knew that verse.

I'm sorry you have such a problem with capital letters? Could you explain?

Also I DID use Scripture in my post, and although I didn't the reference, it was an exact quote. I apoligize for not putting the reference, I now realize that I was wrong in assuming that every Christian who has spent any time in the Word at all, understands that truth of Scripture and would've recognized the verse. Put I just posted the reference, so feel free to look it up. However, where was the Scripture in YOUR post?

I still am catching my breath from laughing at the content of that link you posted. It's so amusing to see people try to change the meanings of things to get it to fit in their theological box or Church denomination. YES the VATICAN CATHOLIC and SATANIC Bibles WATER THAT VERSE DOWN, and by adding a word there that IS NOT IN THE TEXT, they change the whole meaning to something other than what the BIBLE says.

I am thankful thay I allow the Bible to interpret the Bible. I don't rely on Google.com to help my find some spiritual midget's "private interpretation" of the Bible.

I hope that you just posted that link for an example of an apostate Christian writing? To try to say that the word "evil" in Isaiah 45:7 is not evil, but moral evil or disaster is not being honest. Anyone who repeats that is spreading an untruth and is in effect, lying. The word "ra" used here in appears 623 times in the Bible. (Authorized King James Version). It includes verses like these, just to show a few:

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Let's follow your line of reasoning here as stated in the article you endorsed. The same word, "ra", is also used here. So this was the tree of knowledge and "disaster", or tree of knowledge and "moral" evil. Even your vatican Bibles don't translate that that way. This is not a straw man, but logical exposing the error in your reasoning.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Okay, so after the fall man knew good and "disaster" :)

Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

So God destroyed mankind because of "disaster"?

Genesis 13:13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.

Here's a toughy for ya:) We see the man of SODOM we're wicked, (ra). Please don't tell me this is "moral evil" or "disaster". We're talking about homosexuals in unrepentant sin spitting in God's face.

Judges 9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:

Here's another example of GOD authoring evil. I'd like to see how GotQuestions butchers that verse.

And though I have the gift of prophecy, """and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge"""; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind, does not brag, does not act unbecomingly.

If we are mentally slow then you may need to be redundant, or say it in a different way. Maybe more expounding upon the passage.

If he does not have good backup for his view, try finding something that supports it. It is out there.

I'm not going to strive with you over this, C4C. It's not worth it and you're being divisive.

C4C, I cannot believe how incredibly poor your debating skills are. One of the first rules of good debating is to refrain from calling your opponents names. You are doing this all over the place! You, of course, will say, "John the Baptist and Jesus Himself called the religious leaders of their day vipers and snakes! And there are all sorts of names that God calls the wicked in the OT!" I absolutely agree. But the fact that you are calling such terrible names those who are merely debating with you and who are fellow believers in Christ makes me want to stop talking to you altogether. A person who closes his ears to everything except his own interpretation of something does not deserve to be talked to. Now, are you going to tone it down and try to argue correctly, or are you going to keep resorting to name-calling and derogatory language and make everyone quit talking to you? Oh, and if everyone does stop talking to you, it won't be because we don't know how to answer you; it will be because we are disgusted at your lack of Christian love.

I am beginning to see a theme here: I post clear Scriptural evidence, and make a claim based on Scripture. Then, since it's hard to challenge what the Bible clearly sates, my character, motives, and person are attacked, taking the focus of of the discussion, and onto me, a sinner.

Note to SBG: I am not "arguing", so I can't be "arguing incorrectly". I am rather discussion in Christian love Biblical principles.

I have locked this topic and the other "hot" forum topic for the present.

A couple of things:

1. There is no doubt this is an argument. Arguments are not inherently bad; in fact, the definition of "argue" is as follows:

• Give reasons or cite evidence in support of an idea, action, or theory, typically with the aim of persuading others to share one's view.
• Persuade someone to do or not to do (something) by giving reasons: "I tried to argue him out of it".

1. Jesus always showed grace to the humble. The woman at the well was given much grace; Jesus told he did not condemn her and instructed her to go and sin no more. (John 4) He did not call her a viper or a spiritual midget. I think the only spiritual midgets in the Bible were perhaps the Corinthians. The Pharisees were spiritual graveyards.

Edit: So the summary of #2 is to please avoid personal attacks, which happened more than once on this thread.

Edit: 3. Sarcasm should probably be avoided. If it has a place, it's probably not in writing.

You can email me if you have an urgent question, but (again) this thread is locked.