Isabelle Ingalls

Bye Rachel! Miss you too! hug :)

Sorry we're taking over your IY, Isabelle! xP

^ xD

^ :)

Miss you, too! hug

Now that you've made your IY, I give you an official welcome to Memverse! ;) Did you hear about MV at Nats?

Oh, I saw that article on the Rebelution! Didn't know it was yours. :P Very good!

And they may not be happy with us talking about their birthday... xP

But now I immensely want to know who them is…..

*returns from looking up _parameter_ in the dictionary* I'm guessing you mean graduating from highschool (rather than Bible Bee)? Yes, the only rule is that you not be nineteen before Nov 13. I'm fairly certain that it has nothing to do with graduating from highschool (if it did, some of us would be in highschool for a loonnggg time ;)).

awkward laugh sorry, homeschooler problem of using words you have no idea how to pronounce. desperately hopes I used it correctly
Excellent, thanks!
You all just made may year immensely brighter!

Isabelle, I knew you were a bit younger than me but was assuming that you were saying it was your last year because you were going to college next year or something. Sorry. :P I turned 18 just three days before Nov. 13, so I'm too old next year. :'( xP

That's too bad. :( But at least you'll be there next year with Courtney!
In reply to Matthew Minica

(yes, yes I am trying to reply to multiple comments in one post. I'm not sure whether I can actually do that, but, hey, haven't ripped any holes in the space-time-continuum yet!)

Sorry we're taking over your IY, Isabelle! xP

^ xD

^ :)

:D Don't worry about it. It usually plays out that I get on for five minutes, make two comments, leave for five hours, and then try to jump back in and am utterly bewildered. And then there will be fifteen comments of mine in a row trying to catch up with everyone. So I'm used to it :)

Now that you've made your IY, I give you an official welcome to Memverse! ;) Did you hear about MV at Nats? Oh, I saw that article on the Rebelution! Didn't know it was yours. :P Very good!

Thank you! No, I'm actually not quite sure where I heard about MV. Probably some chatter on ST, or just with other BBers. I've actually been on for about a year, but it doesn't quite match my learning style, so I didn't really ever use it until I found the live quiz. And now I've found the forums, so I'm doomed. My journey to the darkside is complete. :D

And thank you!

Here's an official welcome!

Haha! Our whole church has seen the Princess Bride and it gets quoted constantly! (Actually one time one of the dads filled in for our pastor and he had called his sermon "Get used to disappointment"!) :D

I say it's close enough, welcome to the ginger clan!
balloons
Princes Bride is absolutely amazing! I was at a two week worldview camp this summer, and the speaker was talking about marriage, so he got up, smiled, and said "Let's get this over with, because I know it's all what you're thinking. Say it with me: 'dweary bewoved, we gwatwer hwere today, two celebrwate mawage. Mawage, and Twuuuuuu wuve." We were laughing so hard! ;D</blockquote>

Three of my brothers have red hair, too, and my babyest sister also has red hair. I do have a temper which, can surprise people… do you? :)
Haha!!! I love that! What's your favorite quote?!

And they may not be happy with us talking about their birthday... xP

But now I immensely want to know who *them* is.....

Hehe… I'm not supposed to talk about it in such a public place. =P if they see this, they can identify themselves if they wish to. Or else maybe I'll tell you at one of the quizzes.

A most enthusiastic welcome to Memverse, Isabelle! Or more accurately, the forums! :D It's a pleasure to "meet" you, and learn some little tidbits about you. =)
I feel like I may have seen you at Nationals last year - red-haired people tend to be easier to remember/recognize, haha. What is one of your favorite parts of being in the Bible Bee (or your favorite, if you're that decisive)?
I couldn't help but smile when you mentioned that you can be slightly sarcastic - I could have way too much fun with that, but shall refrain. Our family is rather known for our humor and fun sarcasm, but we're always careful when we first meet people (wouldn't want to scare people off from the start, now would we?). ;)

Btw, I'm Rosie. :) Again, it's great to meet you, and hope we'll have many opportunities to get to know each other in the future. :)
Seek Christ!

*returns from looking up _parameter_ in the dictionary* I'm guessing you mean graduating from highschool (rather than Bible Bee)? Yes, the only rule is that you not be nineteen before Nov 13. I'm fairly certain that it has nothing to do with graduating from highschool (if it did, some of us would be in highschool for a loonnggg time ;)).

*awkward laugh* sorry, homeschooler problem of using words you have no idea how to pronounce. *desperately hopes I used it correctly*

Haha! Some of my siblings do that :).

I do believe that Rachel, Anna, and Matthew have adopted your IY thread as a place to chat, Isabelle. XD lol

LOL! :D

Welcome! (Not that I even spend much time on the forums, but, you know, courtesy.)

Well, I've finally found someone else who likes to think about God's timeless nature! A proper understanding of that corrects so many theological errors. So as abruptly as possible, I've gotta ask, are you a Calvinist?

If you don't know what that is, you could read my friend SlaveOfChrists's explanation here: https://www.memverse.com/forums/theology-discussions/topics/want-calvinist-thoughts?page=8#post-379080

God's timelessness supports many of the Calvinist doctrines, at least in my opinion. For example, it's interesting to think about how the Christian (or the elect person, if you prefer that terminology) is always redeemed, even before his conversion in time. God has eternally forgiven all of our sins, and even though the Holy Spirit enters us at a particular moment, no Christian has ever been "unsaved". Our "salvation" is eternal, while our "conversion" is a point in time. At least that's how I would define the terms. (Hence Limited Atonement, Unconditional Election, Preservation of the Saints, the possible/probable salvation of the unborn, etc. But I'll restrain myself.)

Anyway, I'm curious to see if we've concluded some of the same things. :)

Welcome! (Not that I even spend much time on the forums, but, you know, courtesy.) Well, I've finally found someone else who likes to think about God's timeless nature! A proper understanding of that corrects so many theological errors. So as abruptly as possible, I've gotta ask, are you a Calvinist? If you don't know what that is, you could read my friend SlaveOfChrists's explanation here: https://www.memverse.com/forums/theology-discussions/topics/want-calvinist-thoughts?page=8#post-379080 God's timelessness supports many of the Calvinist doctrines, at least in my opinion. For example, it's interesting to think about how the Christian (or the elect person, if you prefer that terminology) is always redeemed, even before his conversion in time. God has eternally forgiven all of our sins, and even though the Holy Spirit enters us at a particular moment, no Christian has ever been "unsaved". Our "salvation" is eternal, while our "conversion" is a point in time. At least that's how I would define the terms. (Hence Limited Atonement, Unconditional Election, Preservation of the Saints, the possible/probable salvation of the unborn, etc. But I'll restrain myself.) Anyway, I'm curious to see if we've concluded some of the same things. :)

Honestly, no I am not. And honestly, this is a really complex issue, and many people that I highly admire and agree with are on different sides of this issue. Moreover, I'm not sure if I can communicate my stand on this very well. But I'll give it a shot:

I don't think people are 'predestined' in the sense that God plays 'duck, duck, damned.' If God 'chooses' who is saved, then He also 'chooses' who is not. Men have nothing to do with it. And I do not believe that. There are many verses such as 2 Pet. 3:9, which says He is not willing that any should perish, and Jhn 3:16, which says God so loved the world, along with several dozen others which say basically the same thing. If God loves all the world, and there is no free-will involved, He would not choose for any of them to perish.
Moreover, I think man does have a say in his salvation. Jhn 1:9 says the true Light (Jesus) lights every man that comes into the world. What can this mean, except that a chance of the gospel has been presented to all men? But since all men do not believe, men can thus refuses this gift of God. And if God "is not willing that any should perish", but some still do, then does that not mean that man has a hand in it? Romans 1:21 says that men knew God, but decided not to glorify Him as God. Once again, it appears that man has a decision in this.
Of course the problem is, how does this work with God's omnipotence? And it is a hard question. If God is all-powerful, how do we have free will? And it's just like the question: If God already knows and has planned what is going to happen, then how do our prayers change things? But the Bible affirms both propositions, stating He has determined all from the beginning, but also showing Him change His mind, such as with Ahab, when he humbled himself. (sorry, I don't have that reference, I'm writing this off the top of my head)
And I think that probably is how we deal with this. I don't understand how Jesus is the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow, and yet was made into flesh, born, died, and got a new glorious body. I don't know how to reconcile those, but the Bible affirms both is true. I don't understand how Jesus says, "No man hath ascended into heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of Man which is in heaven" right as He was standing on the earth. And yet I know both of those are true as well. I can't wrap my mind around how three persons can be one, or how there can even be a person outside of time and space. But the Bible confirms them both. So I think it is the same way with free-will and God's omnipotence. He knows and plans all things, but He also gives us free-will. I don't know how, I can't explain it, but the Bible says so. And as C. S. Lewis explained (in a book I forgot which) we shouldn't be surprised if we can't fathom the truths of our religion. That is the proof that it is true. If I can understand everything about my religion, it would be no higher than myself, and thus made up by me. The impossible paradoxical truths of God is the proof of Christianity's truth.

Hopefully that made a little bit of sense, sorry about not giving many references or more verse, this is literally off of the top of my head as I got a five-minute break. Sorry it is so long! This is a difficult topic, and many intelligent people are on both sides of the issue, but this is my take on it. Have a great day!

Thank you! That does make sense, and I know several people who would agree with you. (I also definitely agree that no one can claim to know or understand everything about the true religion. It's a good reminder.)
I know this is no debate, but there are a couple things I'd like to say in response.
The whole idea behind predestination can be pretty difficult, but "duck, duck, damned" may be a little harsh. No one suggests that God's choice is as random or flippant as that seems to imply. God does not delight in the death of the wicked, says Ezekiel. However my understanding of time (and I believe it is the proper way to interpret God's omnipotence and timelessness) is that time is a predetermined whole. God has written a story, you might say, and everything that happens in it is "predestined", including the choices made by the characters. This doesn't mean we're mindless puppets, though; every choice we make is in accordance with our nature, just as the natural world obeys the scientific laws that are part of its nature.
However, natural laws can be broken by God. It is not in the nature of water to spontaneously turn into wine, and yet it once did. The Calvinist posits that it is not in the nature of sinful man to "choose" God (Romans 3:11), and yet he sometimes does. Both of these, we believe, require God to stoop down and introduce his divine power at a given point in time, to change the very nature of the wine and of the sinner. And as in accordance with the story that he has predestined, he doesn't always choose to do this. Why? Because the story is written to bring him glory, and this involves the salvation of some and damnation of others.
And yes, God "loves the world". He isn't willing "that any should perish". He has "no pleasure in the death of the wicked". But what do these mean? You say that because he loves the world, he gives each individual a choice. Others would say that because he loves the world, everyone will go to heaven. I would suggest that because God certainly doesn't save every single sinner, the words in John 3:16 and 2 Peter 3:9 refer specifically to the elect. (The case is easier to make in 2 Peter 3:9 than John 3:16, by the way.)
That's all I'll say as far as Calvinism goes. I'm not trying to get you to change your position, I'm just clarifying my own. :)

One more thing, though, that's unrelated to Calvinism, and that's prayer. Like you mentioned, it's difficult to understand in light of God's timelessness. Here's my theory, and I'm not completely confident in it, so I'd be interested to hear what you think of it. (If you don't care to talk about it, that's fine too of course. :P) First of all, I think that Western Christianity puts to much emphasis on the asking part of prayer. It's almost as if when we pray, we just ask for things. But Jesus' prayers were much more than asking! That said, the asking is certainly present, take John 17, for example. But most of the things Jesus asks for are already promised to him! So when we pray, we ought to pray in accordance to God's promises, e.g., of forgiveness. On the other hand, when Jesus prayed in Matthew 26:39 that the cup of his suffering would pass from him - which he knew very well would not happen - he ended by saying, "not as I will, but as you will". That, I suppose, is the key idea when we pray 'for' things. We may ask for something we want, but ultimately we should ask for God to do his will, understanding that he has predestined what will happen, and has promised that all things work together for the good of those who love him.

Yes… that was also kinda long. I trust you don't mind.

No, don't worry about it, mine will probably be long too. ;)
First, I want to apologize for the 'duck, duck, damned' term. I was basically trying to show the worse-case scenario, but it came across as flippant and facetious, which I did not at all intend. I apologize for that.
The funny thing actually is, in theory I agree with most all your premises, but completely differ with your conclusion. I guess the big difference is most likely whether or not man has any say in it, whether they each get a choice. I'm a bit wary of saying that both those verses refer only to the elect, as I feel it is reading a bit into it, especially as there are dozens of other verses which say the exact same thing, Again, we have mostly the same propositions, but come to different conclusions. I suppose that's why so many intelligent people are on both sides. :)
Concerning prayer, I think you are correct in saying we lean to much toward the asking side. Prayer is communication with the holy God, the Creator of all things, and it is also a conversation with our loving Father. I doubt your dad is dreadfully delighted when all you say to him is "dad, can I have this, can you get me Y, can I do X?" So I agree with you in the fact that we do it to the detriment of all other parts of prayer. (Because of course, the Bible does say you have not because you ask not, and that God delights to give us good gifts, so we should be sure to be balanced)
My point with the prayer comment was just talking about the incident in 1 King 21:17-29 ( I finally looked it up) where Elijah comes to Ahab, telling him all the terrible things God said He was going to do to him. But then, Ahab humbles himself, and God changes His mind, and says that it won't happen until his son's days. So it's interesting to think about how God's timing and plan never changes, but then He changes His timetable, so how does this work? If you ever need something to spin around in your brain, have fun with that! Sometimes it's just nice to overwhelm yourself with the great paradoxical logic that is God. :)
Anyway, sorry for taking so long to get back, I'm very hit and miss with getting on here.
I hope you have a blessed and merry Christmas!

Yeah, I guess "free will" is the dividing point for most people. There's just something about this subject that nobody can completely reconcile in their mind, and we end up on different sides. But it's always nice to remember we agree on the most important issues. :)
The traditional interpretation, I believe, of passages where God repents, regrets, and changes his mind is that whatever actually happened was his plan from the start. Thus, God eternally decreed that he would threaten Ahab (though it is important to note that nothing which Elijah prophesied was untrue), that Ahab would repent, and that God would 'postpone' the punishment. It may seem like a simple case of 'cause and effect' - which it is - but that doesn't mean it wasn't all planned out. (Jonah 3:10 is a bit problematic. Most likely Jonah's prophesy of "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown" included an expressed or implied clause about the judgment being averted through repentance. God cannot lie, we know.)
It's been great talking to you; merry Christmas! (From a timeless or Australian perspective, that is.)

Hi Isabelle, welcome to Memverse! I believe I saw you a few times at Nationals :)

waves, realizing I should probably get on the forums occasionally
:) Yes, I probably saw you as well! But, I'm having a hard time connecting a face to your name… Because I'm pretty sure you aren't actually a Leopard… :D Sorry!

He was in finals ;)