Can you lose your salvation?

Is it possible for those who have at one time been forgiven of all of their sins, justified by God, given a new heart, and indwelt by the Holy Spirit to wander away from the faith and become no longer saved?

Discuss!

I don't believe that true Christians can fall from God's hand. Like Jesus said in John 10:27-29, "My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me… My Father which gave them me is greater than all, and no man is able to take them out of my Father's hand."

I think this is pretty clear that true believers can never fall from God's hand. Now, sure. There may be some people that look like they are Christians (hence the strong warnings in Hebrews against those who are "Christians, and yet fall away), but none of God's elect, or true Christians, can ever lose their salvation.

I think it is important to clarify what we mean by "saved" or "salvation."

Those who have believed and received eternal life are, and always remain, saved in the sense that they have eternal life, the Holy Spirit indwells them, and they will go to heaven when they die.

However, there are many other kinds of salvation that can be lost. For example, those who wander from Christ lose fellowship with Him, the opportunity to serve Him, various rewards both here and in heaven, and visible distinction between them and the world, among other things.

All these things are sometimes called salvation in Scripture, but they are not the same as the "ticket to heaven" that is the promise of God to all who have believed, no matter what they have done since then.

I agree with Josiah Degraaf; I don't believe that true, born again Christians can lose their salvation. If a professing Christian lost his salvation, then he wasn't a true believer in the first place.

One's answer to this question reveals a lot about his/her view on Soteriology, the doctrine of salvation.

I believe we can't lose or even get rid of that which we had no power in obtaining. God elected me in eternity past, provided the means of the preached gospel to come to my hearing, called me to repent, and sent His Holy Spirit to convict me of my sin, move me to repentance, and give me the faith to believe.

If my works couldn't secure it, my works certainly can't lose it. And thank you, God, none of it was left up to me, for I would have never chosen to follow Him. I'm much too in love with myself. I <3 ME!

Romans 8:38-39: "… NOTHING can separate us from the love of God … "

Are you then saying that we can do what we want, because we can't change the fact that we are saved. Should we live high off the hog just because we can't lose our salvation? (I know you don't believe that, just want to see your answer.)

The Bible says not of works, lest any man should boast. Those who are genuine believers in the first place, can not loose their salvation by works. However, if you deny Jesus (which no true Christian would do), God will deny you (Matthew 10:13).

@Octo: You're such an antagonist! (I love it!)

I will let the Apostle Paul answer your earnest question:

Romans 6:1-2 –

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?"

In other words, if we are a new creation, like from a water-only fish into a land-only animal, how can we still be staying in the water for hours on end, never needing to come up to breathe, still chasing after fish food, and hanging out with sharks, jellyfish, and plankton?

While Romans 7 makes clear that we will still struggle with remaining sin, as true believers there's actually a daily battle now against sin going on inside of us (MAIN EVENT: Holy Spirit vs. old man sin). If we're not feeling any battle going on, and sin is just standard fare for us, then: psst! There's a good chance you never became a Christian.

As ever-growing, developing,and maturing Christians, we will learn to progressively hate what God hates (sin) and love what He loves (righteousness). Can't serve two masters. It's one or the other.

I knew you would get the Romans text out there. Great reply.
You know, I had some concerns there for a few minutes. I was about to call a meeting with Pastor, send an email asking for prayer for you, etc., but this has cleared things up again.

2 Peter 2:20 talks about those who "have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome" It says that "they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning."

It sounds like these people believed and then fell away. Again though, they may not have truly believed in the first place.

Yes, that's right, VRAY-DUH-VOGUE-D. :)

When we take all the Scriptures together, we can see that the issues of false conversion and apostacy are seriously deceptive; and if we only look at individual verses, it is easy to come away with thinking that people can lose their salvation. It will be a genuine shock to many, many people at the judgment someday when they realize that they were never truly saved and had been deceived and/or deceiving themselves all their lives.

Also, check out other controversial passages like Hebrews 6:4-6 and 10:26-29. They can be deceiving, unless your Soteriology is strong with all the other Scriptures on salvation.

Also, logic dictates that if a person is regenerated ("born again"), could it ever be possible for a person to un-birth himself? Furthermore, if God is the only One who can re-birth us, what power do we have to undo that which we had no power to do?

John 6:39: "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

Hebrews 12:2: "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God."

Philippians 1:6: "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:"

I believe the Scripture is pretty self-explanatory on this subject. God has not, and will not, lose even one.

2 Peter 2:20 talks about those who "have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome" It says that "they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning." It sounds like these people believed and then fell away. Again though, they may not have truly believed in the first place.

2 Peter 2 is a tough passage, but personally I believe that it is referring to believers falling in sin.

I believe there's a difference between being loved by God and being saved. God loved even Hitler.

2 Peter 2 can't be interpreted as the a believer in sin. It talks about that one who was saved to be entangled again can't return to being saved. Hebrews speaks of something similar.

So what does it mean? I'd argue it's talking about someone who looks like they're saved on the outside, but isn't on the inside. For a true believer to fall is to say that God wasn't sufficient enough. That God had saved them once, but couldn't keep them saved.

On the contrary, I argue that 2 Peter 2 is talking about men, specifically false teachers, who once thought they followed Christ, but who turned away. To these men God gives a warning. They will never return to the truth and their end will be worse than the beginning. 2 Peter 2 is a sobering thought about the wicked and of false teachers that we ought to take to heart.

I agree completely.

Precisely.

These texts have only made me realize how deeply deceived a person can be about their salvation. No wonder Jesus says that they'll will cry out, "Lord! Lord!" before Him someday, convinced they knew Him and served Him.

Very scary.

It's also no wonder why Paul admonishes the Corinthians (and us) to examine ourselves or that Jesus told so many parables about false converts.

@Mr. DeGraaf: You said: "2 Peter 2 can't be interpreted as the a believer in sin. It talks about that one who was saved to be entangled again can't return to being saved. Hebrews speaks of something similar.".

I'm glad you all so clearly understand this, and wish I could be as certain as you are regarding this passage. A few things that interest me are:

1. Verse 1: "even even denying the Lord that bought them". The "bought them" is what really strikes me here.

2. Then, the Holy Spirit writing through Peter goes on to say in verse 20: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." Can one escape the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and not be saved?

I know someone is going to bring up in that same verse where it says: "the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." If this passage is referring to God's elect falling in sin, (those who the Lord "bought", and those that "have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ"), could the "latter end" or "last things" being "worse then the first", be referring to these believers witness to others?

At the end of the day, I just can't "precisely" (as WM put it) understand exactly what this passage is talking about. I know my position here taking the text literally sounds very foreign, and erroneous, and indeed it may be. The more time I spend studying this passage, the more questions I have and less answers. Hopefully you all can help me out with the answers.

To answer your post, I'm going to step back to look at 2 Peter 2 in its entirety, since then I think that gives better context for this specific part.

2:1-3) Peter says that there are going to be false teachers bringing in heresies that are going to lead many astray

2:4-9) Peter talks about other heathen that he destroyed for their ill doing but stresses the fact that He will save the righteous.

2:10-17) Peter talks about the wicked, describing them as brute beasts made to be taken and destroyed that will receive their reward in full.

And here we get to the passage. By looking at the context, we see that Peter is here talking about evildoers and the wicked. The 'they' used in 2 Peter 2:20 refers back to the previous verses about the wicked: such as are made to be taken and destroyed. So I think its clear that he's talking about the heathen. If you read the rest of 2 Peter, I think it has a pretty clear line of thought about who its talking about.

Verse 20 then says, "For if after they have escaped…" So first, this is a conditional statement. It's talking about the wicked, but only some of them–not all of them. Here I believe Peter is talking about this issue in human terms. As humans, we don't know the hearts, so we can only "guess" about whether or not someone is a Christian. Paul describes this subset of the heathen thus in terms that we can understand and warns those who would profess Christ and then turn aside.

So in conclusion, verse 20 seems, in context, to be talking about a subset about the heathen: of those that once seemed to be Christians, but turned aside. Verse 22 likewise backs this up talking about a dog returning to his own vomit. For them to have been true creatures, God would have needed to regenerate them. Instead, they've retained the same form and are no better off now than before.

Agreed.

I think Scripture describes two kinds of love God has for humans:

1) He loves all people: He takes no delight in the death of the wicked; and He provides common grace to the world in both restraining the utter wickedness that man could really do if totally unleashed and bestowing the daily blessings on everyone via sustentation.

2) He has a special, saving love for His elect, which has been in place for eternity, and comes with all of the graces afforded to us before, at, and after salvation (most we have yet to experience, and will blow us away).

So when we tell people that God loves them, we're not being dishonest; however, we need to be careful of the extent to which we tell the unsaved that God loves them, and not, intentionally or unintentionally, express God's love to them that really isn't there until they are actually His children. (e.g., "God loves you too much to let you go to hell;" "God's love will get you through that;" "Always remember in those dark times that God loves you;" and, indiectly, "God always hears your prayers!" "God will never leave you or forsake you." "God's working everything together for good.")

These are all dangerous statements to say (or sing, in terms of many Christian Contemporary songs out there today) that convey God's love in a way that's only reserved for His saints.

Thanks for the response, Josiah. You have brought up some good points, however, I still wonder why the Holy Spirit would have inspired Peter to write that they escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of Jesus Christ, and also that to Lord bought these people if this passage was referring to the "heathen" as you put it. It seems it fits the text better to interpret this passage as referring to believers falling in sin.

I wonder why the Holy Spirit would have inspired the Apostle Paul to write, "Nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus" if He meant that, in some cases, falling into sin can permanently separate us from the love of God.

Like Wretched Man said, this is only referring to God's true elect. Here on earth, it can be hard for us to sometimes see who is part of God's invisible church and who is just a counterfeit of those who call themselves Christians. This verse here is speaking specifically of God's elect.

Yes, I know. That's why I used it to refute what C4C said about believers falling into sin. I'm fully convinced that there are many false converts who fall into sin, and thus their "latter end is worse than the first." My point was that true believers have God's promise that nothing can separate them from God's love.

Case in point would be Ray Boltz.

Is he still saved, though he has fully embraced a homosexual lifestyle and is in active practice of that sin and adultery against his wife; and does not call anything he is doing sinful?

Or was he always a false convert, in spite of his songs containing some of the most articulate proclamations of the gospel message?

He fits the descriptions of the Peter and Hebrews passages very well, and still says he is serving God.

@WM

We can count on you to bring up the hard questions. :)

First off, I don't think it is our place to judge another. Frankly, I can't say if anyone is redeemed for sure, and it's not ours to be judging them.

I have never heard of Ray Boltz, but did some research on him. It is obvious he is not living a Christian life, and we could come to the conclusion he is not saved. If he is redeemed however, and is going to heaven, I do not know, and cannot say. We do not get to heaven on our own merit, or any work of our own. There is nothing we can do to to be redeemed, and nothing we can do to separate ourselves from God.

C4C, I agree with you fully, but understand that someone living a sinful lifestyle with no remorse is almost certainly not a Christian. We can't be 100% positive about his salvation, but we can be quite sure by what we've seen. This is not the way a Christian should live (nor would he want to live this way, if he had the Holy Spirit in him).

"By their fruits, ye shall know them."

How could we ever root out the false teachers and heretics among us if we didn't judge their fruits?

I Corinthians 5:9ff is pretty clear: We ARE to judge those within the body of Christ who profess to be a brother or sister in Christ yet practice unrepentant sinful living.

If, after adhering to the prescription of Biblical confrontation with them, they continue on unrepentantly in their sin, we are to avoid even eating with them, judging them as one who is unsaved and leaving them to Satan. This is basic excommunication from the church (1 Cor. 5; Matt. 18).

It is also an act of love and a final attempt at restoring a professing brother/sister in Christ to the church.

A bad tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree bears good fruit.
By their fruits you shall know them.
Jesus said that so that we could discern between true and false converts.
We are to judge others (in LOVE of course). Indeed, it is our duty to keep the church of God pure from the world.
If a man is refusing to call sin sin, and is living in sin, he is obviously bearing bad fruit, and we can safely conclude that he is not saved. 1 John 3 has a lot to say about this subject.
You don't get grapes from thistles or figs from thorns. A saved person doesn't live in sin. He does not practice lawlessness.
I did not say he does not sin. I said he does not make a practice of sinning. We still sin, that is clear. But we don't (and if we do, we should doubt the verity of our own confession) practice lawlessness.

@WM:

Let me clarify what I mean by judging if someone is redeemed or not. I am not referring to one's salvation when speaking of redemption, but rather, like in the Peter passage we were discussing, those: "bought" by the Lord. Biblically, there is a distinction between salvation, and redemption.

The bottom line: By no merit of their own did the elect become elect, and there is nothing they can do to separate themselves from God either.

@Octavius:

You said: "A saved person doesn't live in sin. He does not practice lawlessness."

I am talking about redemption, not salvation. See my post to WM.

One cannot be bought by the Lord in a redemptive sense without being saved in time. Why would He have bought someone whom He knew was going to Hell?

I already explained to you the more likely meaning of that text via my quote from John Gill.

C4C: I still think that Peter passage is only speaking according to the profession of the false teacher(s) as being a self-proclaimed Christian. By calling the false teacher(s) "bought," I only think that Peter is stating it that way because the false teacher is claiming to be "bought."

For instance, if you tell me you're a Christian, I initially take you at your word and speak to you in terms indicating that I'm talking to someone who is "bought," per se. However, if you start spouting some heresies and/or live a lifestyle contrary to your profession, it calls your profession into question, but I would still speak of you in terms of being "bought," though you indeed may not be after all (and are a false convert).

I think that's what Peter's doing there. I don't think he's positing, nor does Scripture teach, that a person can be 'bought," yet not be a genuine believer. It's the same as in the Hebrews texts already cited. Those who profess the faith would have all of the blessings of salvation projected onto them by surrounding believers, and would be spoken of in all of those terms, yet still not be truly saved if their repentance and professed faith were false. Yet when I talk about them, I could still speak in terms that they "tasted the heavenly gift" and "partook of the Holy Spirit," yet they are now acting like it was all a sham.

Peter's only addressing them in accordance with their profession. I don't think he's calling them "bought" while at the same time knowing that they're not truly converted.

Am I making sense?

Redemption and salvation go hand in hand. If you're saved, you've been redeemed. If you're redeemed, you are saved.
WM's post answers your question.

Yes, it is possible to lose your salvation. Can you imagine if every single person that ever was a Christian was in heaven? I mean, think of all the backsliders! You go into heaven if you're a Christian when you die, and if you aren't, you don't.
And to clarify, being a Christian means believing that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior, he literally died on a literal cross to save us from the sin that we brought upon ourselves, and that he is the only way to salvation.

So, at one time Christ has died for us, and if we backslide, then He has not died for us?

Let's just say rather that true Christians won't truly backslide (as an unbroken pattern of behavior). God won't let someone who is His child, whom He loves infinitely, to backslide so as to lose salvation. He will make sure they get to heaven.
Not every profession of belief is saving. Proof of a good profession is good works. And if someone doesn't have them (backslides as a continual unbroken pattern of behavior) then he or she should be worried for the safety of his/her soul. They did not come out of God's flock, for they were never in it in the first place. They did not lose their salvation by backsliding, because they never had it in the first place.

But that said, Christians do backslide. However, this is only temporary and they always repent in the end.

"Not every profession of belief is saving. Proof of a good profession is good works. And if someone doesn't have them (backslides as a continual unbroken pattern of behavior) then he or she should be worried for the safety of his/her soul. They did not come out of God's flock, for they were never in it in the first place. They did not lose their salvation by backsliding, because they never had it in the first place."

I agree. And everything else you said along with that.

YOU can't lose what YOU never found.

God can't lose what He secured to find.

It's all about your Soteriology (doctrine of salvation):

If you believe you found God and got saved, then it be easy to lose it, since you had the power to find it.

If you believe God called you to life and sealed you until He comes to get you, there's nothing you can do, or would want to do, to forsake that.

Ponder: what is the motivation behind this question (in a deep sense)? Are you afraid that you've lost your salvation? Are you worried about desiring God less? Are you meddling in the salvation of others which is not your jurisdiction?

I'm saved. I'm satisfied in Him. I'm not worried; I trust Him. I don't want out.

Before we go further - how are we defining "salvation"?

I'm confused on how someone who believes that you can lose your salvation would explain John 6:39 –

"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day." ESV

It seems very clear to me; so, would someone who believes that you can lose your salvation, explain that verse to me?

I think that many believe that you can lose your salvation based on the mistaken notion that those who claim to be Christians at a young age surely are. Because when they get older, they tend to fall away, or "backslide." This would easily lead someone to believe that a person can lose their salvation.
But, anyone who does believe this, realize that not everyone who prays the "sinner's prayer" is certainly saved. There are many, many false conversions in the church today. That is why we see 2/3 of all children who went to church when they were younger leaving by the time they are out of college. The church today is mostly not preaching the true gospel, so most of the people who are supposedly saved there are not truly. Most leave the church, and even some who stay in are not truly saved. This is why Jesus commands us to inspect a person's fruit. "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. … Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."

A person who is not bearing any good fruit, but is obviously bearing bad fruit, we can easily and safely assume is not a true Christian. No Christian backslides to the point of no longer being saved. As in the verse that Bethany pointed out, "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day." God has given Christ those who have been saved. Jesus is not going to let go. And, as WM said, "YOU can't lose what YOU never found."

Hello, Nicolas. Ms. Pentimone is asking for someone who believes you CAN lose your salvation to answer her question.

Isn't there anyone out there who believes you can lose your salvation? Anyone?!?

I'm totally new to this discussion, but the topic has been bugging me recently so I was delighted to find this forum! Since most of you seem to believe that it's not possible to lose one's salvation, I have a couple of questions that hopefully you'll be able to answer:
How does Hebrews 6 fit in with all this? I mean, when someone has "shared in the Holy Spirit," "Who is a deposit guarenteeing our inheritance," (Eph 1), it's pretty clear that that person has been saved at one point, right? How can someone be NOT a real Christian and "have tasted the heavenly gift," and "have shared in the Holy Spirit?" What am I missing???
Also, Romans 8. True, "nothing can separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord," but is losing your salvation the same thing as being separated from the love of God? I mean, is it possible that a once-saved Christian could fall away, but still be loved by God?

I can see why you would think that from that verse–it really seems like that is what it is saying. But I looked up what John Gill (my favorite commentator!) had to say about this, and it explains the answer in detail. Rather than take up an entire forum page by pasting it on here, I'll just give you the link to his comments on the entire chapter, and you'll likely find what you're looking for. :)

http://gill.biblecommenter.com/hebrews/6.htm

This was a link off of biblos.com, which, as I've said probably four times in other places, is an INCREDIBLE resource for absolutely anything related to Bible study. Different Bible versions, commentaries, atlases, dictionaries, concordances, encyclopedias, devotions, lexicons, thesauruses, you name it, in many languages and all for FREE!!! If you need to study the Bible in depth, go to biblos.com!! :)

@WM, I am one who believes that you can lose your salvation after you have experienced it, so fire away!

First of all, I would like to discuss with you a point you made earlier in one of your posts. I believe you mentioned something to the effect that if works could not gain us our salvation, than works certainly could not loose it for us. How did Adam and Eve loose their salvation, or were they really never saved in the first place?

Secondly, I do believe that we can loose our salvation. Paul tells us how to be saved in Romans 10:9 and also in Acts 16:31. Hebrews 6:4-6 says, "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame." How is the Holy Ghost experienced apart from salvation? Do unbelievers have the Holy Ghost as well as believers? Or how do we experience the powers of heaven without salvation?

But there are those who make this remark, "But God says that nothing will pluck us our of His hand. This must mean that we will never loose our salvation." Just because something you are holding cannot be plucked out of your hand by another persons does not mean that it can never leave your hand. Rather, it means that the only way it will leave your hand is if you allow it to leave your hand. And yes, nothing will ever separate us from the love of God. This still does not mean He is not just. If love will always keep us from loosing our salvation, why will His love not allow every one to be saved?

Now, before I go any further, I would like to know what your definition of saved is, so I know what you are talking about.

See the website page I suggested on Hebrews 6. That should represent our arguments well. And as for your question, "How is the Holy Ghost experienced apart from salvation?", I'll answer by using the study notes in my Bible.

"…such expressions as 'enlightened,' 'tasted the heavenly gift' and 'shared in the Holy Spirit' indicate that such persons had come under the influence of God's covenant blessings and had professed to turn from darkness to light but were in danger of a public and final rejection of Christ, proving they had never been regenerated."

These people experienced the fellowship of Christians and the great feelings associated with studying the Word of God and knowing the wonders of the Almighty, but they never applied it to themselves and repented of their sins and trusted in the Savior.

You also said, "Just because something you are holding cannot be plucked out of your hand by another persons does not mean that it can never leave your hand. Rather, it means that the only way it will leave your hand is if you allow it to leave your hand." But there's a problem here. Look closer at the verse you referred to: "I give [my sheep] eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand." So they shall never perish, but God can let go of them? That doesn't seem to make sense.

As for the argument regarding Adam and Eve, that is irrelevant. I'll explain. Adam and Eve were in perfect communion with God, then that communion was broken when they sinned. You take this to mean that if we sin too much, the same thing can happen to us. But there is a big difference between Adam and Eve and us Christians. Adam and Eve were directly told by God that they would die if they ate from the tree. But, as I showed in my previous comment, God has told us that we, no matter how much we rebel against Him, will never perish by being sent to hell. In the first, God said that death was a possibility. In the last, God has said that death is an impossibility. Big difference.

Our definition of "saved" is the state in which all Christians (those who have repented of their sins and put their faith in Jesus Christ) are, where they are saved from hell and are bound for heaven, and they have the Holy Spirit in them, who causes them to hate sin and to love following God's law. We believe that this state is irrevocable–whoever is saved will never become "unsaved."

One more question to answer. You said, "If love will always keep us from losing our salvation, why will His love not allow every one to be saved?" Because He has promised to keep saved those whom He has saved, and because He does not have to save everyone. His love is definitely enough to save everyone, but He has not chosen to save everyone. (This part comes down to an argument on Calvinism, which is unnecessary here.)

Again, this all comes down to the fact that, since we did not gain our salvation by our good works, we can certainly not lose it by our bad works. If we could, everyone would be unsaved right now, because everyone sins many times every day. We can rest gladly in the fact that God will keep us until our dying day!

2 Timothy 1:12:

"That is why I am suffering as I am. Yet I am not ashamed, because I know whom I have believed, and am convinced that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him for that day."

"First, what about those who have 'confessed with their mouth the Lord Jesus' and believed in their heart that God raised Him from the dead? Are they saved the instant they do that, or does it come later?"

Yes. Absolutely.

"If a person is saved the instant they confess Jesus as Lord with their mouths and believe in their hearts that God raised Him from the dead, does this mean that they are automatically bound for heaven? I don't think so. I believe that there are people who have prayed that prayer and made the confession of faith that can still lose their salvation."

There is a big misunderstanding here. You seem to assume that anyone who prays the sinner's prayer and says that they believe in their heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, according to Romans 10:9, is saved. But that is not true. I may seem to be contradicting Scripture when I say this, but I'll explain myself… using John Gill, of course. ;D This is his commentary on Romans 10:9:

"'That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus':
That is, if a man shall make a good, sincere, and hearty confession to God, before the church and people of God, and before the world, that Christ is his Lord and Saviour, whom he desires to serve, and to be saved by; and this as arising from a comfortable experience of the grace of God in his soul, and from a true faith in Christ in his heart, wherefore it follows,

'and shall believe in thine heart, that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved':
For this article of Christ's resurrection includes the several other articles of faith: it supposes his death, and that supposes his life, and the obedience of it; and his life implies his being here on earth, and that his coming down from heaven to do the will of his Father; and this is the rather mentioned, which is here ascribed to God the Father, though not to the exclusion of the Son and Spirit, because that Christ is risen again for our justification, with which true faith is principally concerned; for such a faith is intended, not which lies in a mere assent to the truth of this, or any other article of the Christian religion; but which is concerned with Christ for righteousness, life, and glory; and with such a faith salvation is certainly and inseparably connected."

So, a person is not saved just because they say they are. There are many, many people who think they are saved, but they are not. That is why Matthew 7:21-23 says what it says. I totally agree with you that those people who do not follow through with their confession of faith are not saved–but I do not believe, like you do, that they lost their salvation. They never had it, because they never truly believed in their heart all the things that Jesus' resurrection implies, such as their incapability to save themselves (otherwise Jesus would not have had to die and be resurrected) and Jesus' position as both God and man, fully both (if He were not fully man, He would not have been able to represent the human race in His death and resurrection, and both would have been in vain, and if He were not fully God, He would not be able to live a perfect life, and His death and resurrection would be in vain, again).

"For an example, consider the life of Charles Templeton, one of the greatest evangelists America has ever known. I don't have time to go into all the details right now, but at one point he was predicted to be a greater evangelist than Billy Graham. Yet he died a religious agnostic. Did he go to heaven or hell? Now, it is not our part to judge, but where would you think he went?"

If he continued in his path (which was never on the path to life), he would have gone to hell. He was not ever saved if he was an agnostic when he died. If he repented of his sins and had faith in the ability of Christ's sacrifice to save him before he died, he went to heaven.

"If a person is not saved the instant they make their confession and believe, then they must be progressively sanctified, right?"

No. It is impossible for someone who truly believes in Christ (and, therefore, have repented of their sins) to not be saved. A person who has done this will be progressively sanctified, yes.

"Please forgive me if I am coming across too harshly."

Oh, you're not. You're just expressing your views a little firmly. Don't worry, I'm more harsh than you, so I apologize if I am being too harsh. :)

So none one who are truly saved can turn away from the way to life?

Sorry to jump in for you, Nicolas, but I couldn't resist :) And, I'm only doing this, because I think we both believe completely the same thing on this issue. Feel free to add more to what I said =)

"So none one who are truly saved can turn away from the way to life?" No. Absolutely Not. There is no way. NOOO!

So, I think I made my point to you, but I'll still clarify a little more. Another major thing to realize is, that when someone is truly saved (not just having prayed a little "sinners prayer" or whatever), but are really saved from their sinful life, THEY DON'T HAVE ANY DESIRE TO TURN AWAY FROM GOD! They will be so overwhelmed with what Christ did, that they will never, EVER have any desire whatsoever, to no longer have salvation from God.

(Sorry, I used so many caps, I just wanted to really make my point…as I strongly hold to this view :P)