Is it Right to Kill Someone?

In this hypothetical situation you are assuming that you know what is going to happen or what the intent of the perpitrator is in reality you won't. But even if you did I don't think there is any way which you as a bystander can legally justify shooting the guy, for what he looked like he was about to do in this situation, unless he was threatining her with a weapon, or threatining you or yours.
From a moral standpoint I do think we have the duty to save and protect the lives and wellbeing of others, sometimes at the expense of a criminal's life.

Ah, I get your point, but does he need to die? I think we should handicap the man at the most. The Bible tells us not to kill and I haven't seen an example of justified killing in the New Testament, so I would not kill anyone. Sorry if I sounded like I was trying to say that I knew what the man would do(I mentioned that there was a lot of probability involved).

@Jordan~ Yes! Let's see if we can make this a habit!

@MilesChristiSum~ Hey, the woman can testify with you if you go to court! You have a witness! That's what I was getting at! You'd be saving a life, and most likely not get in trouble for doing it!

Sure. I don't want to kill him, but when you are using a handgun, the first thing you want to do is stop the threat. If you just wound him and he has a gun, he might still be able to shoot you or the woman. And if you just scare him away, then there's a rapist running around the town which endangers others.

But I do agree that I would NEVER want to kill anyone and I would only do that if it becomes completely necessary. (If he's going to kill me or another person.)

Well, actually, the Bible doesn't say not to kill; it says not to murder. The sense of the Hebrew word in the Ten Commandments does not involve just any killing, but plotted murder. And are you saying that since the NT doesn't say anything about justified killing, it's wrong? When God commanded the Israelites MANY times to wipe out entire civilizations, was He doing wrong? Or did He change His nature during the time between the OT and the NT? :P

Actually I think God did change in the New Testament. During the Old Testament God raised up a people, the Israelites, to wipe out the sin that had corrupted the earth. The people they killed were sinners, idol worshippers, and yes, murderers. Yet this was necessary in the Old Testament because Jesus had not come to the earth yet. I think a person could still be held accountable for killing another human being if their was an alternative to doing so. When I reffered to the New Testament I was speaking of how Jesus told us to turn the other cheek and to not engage in unnecessary violence.

Is not it true that we no longer fight against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers. We fight a different battle now.

Oh, God doesn't Change, I don't agree with SW in that point.

But I do think it is wrong to kill in any circumstance. If you want more info I will give it.

I do agree with you in that the Hebrew word of kill/murder means murder.

In ANY circumstance? Even war? Even if someone is trying to kill you and you have a gun?

This topic seems to parallel what Sgt. Alvin York was dealing with when he was drafted into WW1 to fight the Nazis. His dramatized biography was just airing on Adventures in Odessy.

@ Soul Winner, Saying that God's character changes is contrary to the theology of Immutability, that “God is unchanging in his character, will, and covenant promises." (The Immutability of God, Theopedia: http://www.theopedia.com/Immutability_of_God)
"A number of Scriptures attest to this idea (e.g. Num. 23:19; 1 Sam. 15:29; Ps. 102:26; Mal. 3:6; 2 Tim. 2:13; Heb. 6:17–18; Jam. 1:17)"(thanks to Wikipedia).

In response to the heavy usage of the phrase "turn the other cheek", how many people will thoroughly practice this? That they will refrain from stopping a killer? Or help a ex-convict steal their own silver candle sticks and spoons (e.g. the goodly bishop in Victor Hugo's Les Miserables)? Or not raise their hand to halt a second blow. How about raising a shelter so your persecutor can whip you with greater ease?

No. I would not kill the would-be rapist.

That is the joy of Middle Earth, I assure you they never had questions of the morality of killing an orc.

So you would just let them rape the poor girl? You would just stand there and WATCH?!?! Seriously? I do hope you don't intend to be a policeman(sorry if you're a girl).

What if they were trying to kill be for my faith in Christ?
Would that make a difference to you?
In war the person is either my christian brother (I Don't want to kill him then) or he is a non-christian and then he would probably be evil and Jesus Said to "resist not evil."

So you would let him shoot you?

EDIT: You said you'd give me more evidence, and so I'm asking for it: give me evidence that is is the more godly route to NOT shoot someone who is trying to kill you or someone near you.

Well I read your verses and I said nothing about God being like a man or needing to repent… I agree God Himself does not change, but it just appears to me that He changed His "tactics" if you will in the New Testament. Sorry that my previous post came across as wrong to so many people.

So, what about a Christian as a police officer? Police officers do sometimes use deadly force against a criminal… In the protection (we hope) of innocent citizens.

If he is raping a woman in front of you, then what are you going to do? Turn around and walk the other way?

(BTW: I hope I don't offend anyone, it's just that I've taken several defensive handgun courses… so these are the types of scenarios that you are taught.)

Question.
Next year, the government makes it illegal to be a Christian, you and someone your close to are throne into an arena, you are given a sword, and now a gladiator is going after the someone close to you.
Are you going to kill the gladiator? What if there isn't another person close to you and the gladiator is coming after you, because your a Christian?

Should you wait on God to act?

It's a far fetched scenario I know, But please answer the question.

First off I don't think the guy is going to just rape the woman right in front of me, but if that were the case, I would either dial 911 or get shot in trying to rescue the woman.

You still did not answer my question about how Jesus said to "resist not evil."

If I kill the guy he is either a believer, (very unlikely) or he is and unbeliever and I know that if I kill him he will go to hell.

Revelation 21:8 (KJV)
8 But the fearful, and UNBELIEVING, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Oh, and where is God in this situation?

That's a TOTALLY different situation! In this scenario, we are not witnessing a woman being violated, we are forced into an ungodly situation. If I choose not to fight( which I would), I would be executed. End of story. I'm not seeing someone being raped and throwing my own gun away and throwing myself onto the rapist's gun so try to "help" the woman! If you do that, you're not helping anyone, and you're just allowing a rapist to roam free in that area! And, you would just watch the woman getting raped as you call 911? Seriously?

Back to the second question, if I was being attacked by a gladiator who I did NOT know, and (like you said), he was trying to kill me, I would kill him in order to save my life. Octavius is actuallly writing about this situation on his blog, I think it's talesofkhartur.wordpress.com . Click on "Book One", and look on the right=hand side of the screen, and you'll see a link that says "Gladiator, Chapter 1", or something similar to that( I'm not at the computer that allows me to see his blog right now). Read it, he addressed the Christian Gladiator issue pretty well there.

So you would kill the guy? And then he goes to hell? How is that loving him?

So there is a difference between getting killed for your faith and getting killed because you didn't want to kill?

And so how is letting him kill you loving your family and friends? Especially if YOU are the main provider in your family? (thanks Karthmin!)

Being killed for your faith is being killed when refusing to do a sinful act that the government or others are trying to force on you. Getting killed because "you didn't want to kill"(I'm assuming you mean that you COULD kill to protect yourself, but you just won't), is not loving those close to you, or yourself.

Here is an article for you to read. http://www.brfwitness.org/?p=921
Although it doesn't address self-defense it does provide some insight on this topic.

Following Jesus is not always convenient sometimes it can be painful.

I'm going to repaste what I said earlier.

You still did not answer my question about how Jesus said to "resist not evil."

If I kill the guy he is either a believer, (very unlikely) or he is and unbeliever and I know that if I kill him he will go to hell.

Revelation 21:8 (KJV)
8 But the fearful, and UNBELIEVING, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Oh, and where is God in this situation?

Edit: Here is another article for you to read.
http://www.brfwitness.org/?p=709

@witness1615 I would like you to clarify just where Jesus says 'resist not evil.'

@SoulWinner I believe that God did not change tactics either, but simply progressed with the plan that he had from the beginning, Christ was promised to Adam and Eve. Saying that He changed tactics makes it sound like He is not Omniscient.
My previous comment's biblical refrences came from the acknowleged sources, I think sighting both Old and New testament passages on such an Imortant topic as the person and nature of God is appropriate.

Matthew 5:38-42 (KJV)
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye RESIST NOT EVIL (emphasis mine) : but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

Here's an interesting quote on this subject by Ray Comfort… I'm interested to hear your opinion on this:
(BTW: I do think that the murder of children he uses in the example could also be used interchangeably with the rape of a woman.)

"If you were in a public place and some crazy person was shooting children, would you be pleased to see someone take him out? I’m sure you would. Would you change your mind if you found out that the hero was a Christian? I’m sure you would want the murderer to be stopped no matter who stopped him or how he was stopped. The person who stops evil isn’t evil."

You fail to understand me, but that is my fault. I used the word tactics because at the moment I could not think of a better way to describe what I was saying. In the New Testament, since Jesus came, things were obviously different, right? People no longer needed to sacrifice animals. Instead of talking to God through priests, people could now commune directly with God. I was merely saying that God does things a little differently in the New Testament then in the Old Testament.

@ witness1615, Thankyou. I'm not sure if this makes any difference at all or not, but in many of the translations the wording is 'evil person'.
It seems to me to be a passage dealing with taking insult and personal injury without retaliation, not saying we should let evil-doers murder children and rape women. I'm not trying to make a straw man of your argument here).

@Jordan, I'm not sure that equating the murder of children situation with the rape of a woman situation would be necessarily right.
I would definatly shoot a person shooting at others if I had the capability at the time. And try to stop a person intending rape, but I don't know if shooting them at the time would be the appropriate response. I may quickly become so, as the would be rapist then turned on one or both of the other two people in the situation (the woman and you).

I think what your trying to say is that in the old testament we were under the dispensation of law and now were under the dispensation of grace. Right?

I think so… I really have no idea what that means :)

In case you were wondering…………yes, you were.

I'm sorry if this has already been asked but I do not have time to read through this whole topic again.
Do y'all think that it is right to kill someone else to save yourself?

Yes.

Explain why, please.

Read the whole thread.

I don't have the time to especially with this history project and I would like to know other peoples thoughts as well…

I have a sort of theoretical question for you. Stalin stopped Hitler. Does that mean that Stalin in not evil?

I think it is good to the word translated murder in Exodus 20:13. It means "the prohibition may be defined more narrowly as the taking of a life outside of the parameters (as in the case of war or capital punishment), laid down by God." (NIDOTTE, 1186)

I do believe however, that there are times when we must kill in self defense of ourselves or others. The Israelites certainly had times where they had to defend themselves individually and the Bible does not condemn that. David, for example, while he would not kill "the Lord's anointed" led a band of rebels who did attack and kill many who attacked them (e.g. 1 Samuel 30).

^When I first got on Memverse I enjoyed reading through the discussions and writing my thoughts for myself. Since the TD have been really quiet for such a long time I thought maybe we could try re-hashing some of them together. I'm not completely sure I agree with my old views anymore… but anyway we can dig in and start over. I know there are a lot of new people on the Forums now so maybe we can get some new input! :)^

Sarah B.
(Written: May 11, 2012)
In the ten commandments we read, "Thou shalt not kill", but we also read in Exodus 22:2: "If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him." What about in self-defense, or to save others?

I believe that killing human life is wrong. Exodus 20:13; Deut. 5:17
The Old Testament goes to much length explaining that when a person murdered someone else the punishment was death. (Ex. 21:12) I believe in capitol punishment. The government has the right to kill a murder.

When it comes to loving our “neighbor” (to save a life), I believe that is when it is acceptable to kill an attacker. Mark 12:30 says, “And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment. And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

I would like to say that killing in self-defense is the right thing to do as well; if someone attacked me my first response would be to fight back. But I also think that if I love the Lord with all my heart, mind, and soul, it won’t really matter if someone killed me. Therefore there would be no need for self-defense. And besides the Lord says to “turn the other cheek” and “vengeance in Mine.”
Thankfully, nothing is outside of Gods sovereign rule. And “God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.” (1 Corinthians 10:13)

Other verses that have to do with killing: Matt.5: 21-22; Jas.2: 11; Prov. 6:16; Ex.21: 12-13; 1 John 3:15-16; 1 Peter 4:15

I believe that it is ok to kill in self-defense. If I am at home babysitting my little brother, and someone is breaking into the house, I am going to shoot them. I believe that the Bible means to not murder. :)

I believe that it is ok to kill in self-defense. If I am at home babysitting my little brother, and someone is breaking into the house, I am going to shoot them. I believe that the Bible means to not murder. :)

I entirely agree!

I believe that the Bible means to not murder. :)

I know I haven't posted in a while,
How is killing someone an act of love?

Here is an article for you to read. http://www.brfwitness.org/?p=921 Although it doesn't address self-defense it does provide some insight on this topic. Following Jesus is not always convenient sometimes it can be painful. I'm going to repaste what I said earlier. You still did not answer my question about how Jesus said to "resist not evil." If I kill the guy he is either a believer, (very unlikely) or he is and unbeliever and I know that if I kill him he will go to hell. Revelation 21:8 (KJV) 8 But the fearful, and UNBELIEVING, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Oh, and where is God in this situation? Edit: Here is another article for you to read. http://www.brfwitness.org/?p=709

I haven't trolled this thread yet, and neither have I argued on it, but just to point out, if you kill someone that's evil, you're not sending them to hell. Only God can send people to hell. This has nothing to do with whether or not you should kill people in self defense, or in any other situation, but it is a truth that is often overlooked.

I know I haven't posted in a while, How is killing someone an act of love?

If you love to kill people, then it is.
WE KIDDETH! ;D

I know I haven't posted in a while, How is killing someone an act of love?

Could you explain what you mean by an act of love?

We are supposed to love our enemies, obviously the person attacking us is our enemy, so why would killing them be loving?

We are supposed to love our enemies, obviously the person attacking us is our enemy, so why would killing them be loving?

I certainly would not kill them if at all possible. In this particular example a younger sibling's life is being endangered, so I could not allow that to happen, since then I would not be loving my sibling, who I have a duty to protect. That being said, I would use the least amount of force possible. If I could tell them to stop, knock them down, or just point a gun at them, then I would do that.

Here is why I believe that it may be necessary to kill attackers if no other method will avail.

Nehemiah 4:14
And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses.

This was as they were preparing for an attack on the walls by the enemies round about them during the rebuilding of Jerusalem.

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" Matthew 5:43-44
God is raising the standard in the New Testament, you can see that especially with the sermon on the mount, "Ye have heard… But I say unto you…." There is a difference between the OT and the NT. What if Jesus really meant everything He Said?

Well, I think that now it comes down to how we interpret the Bible. Are laws mandatory unless modified, or not? While Jesus did change things int he NT, he didn't repeal old laws. And one thing to note is it says love your enemies. In the example of a man breaking in a house to harm a little child, he would not be your enemy, but rather the child's.

So the man breaking in is your friend? or isn't he your enemy also?

So the man breaking in is your friend? or isn't he your enemy also?

Exactly what I was about to post.

Anyway, I believe that, as a Christian and older sibling, your priority in this situation is the safety of your younger sibling. You are called to protect them, and if protecting them means killing their assailant, so be it. They made the decision to break into my home and threaten my family, so I am under no obligation to try to preserve their life. Jesus did say love your enemies, and in this situation, the best love I could show him would be to stop him from sinning further by hurting my family.

So the man breaking in is your friend? or isn't he your enemy also?

Yes, he is your enemy to some extent, but he is mainly your younger sibling's enemy if that is who is in the most danger.