Media

My original statement was: Disney is full of awful stuff anyhow. Video games too. Most media, actually.

I have now modified it to the more all-encompassing statement of: The majority of media in the world today (including movies, television, and video games), have an open anti-God, anti-Bible, anti-Christian worldview.

Sam told me that this was "a blatant generalization". Is it?

Should we, as Christians, be wasting our time on something that is subtly undermining our worldview, our values, our morals?

This is my point, Sam, to answer your question. It's not just a waste of time. "Let the young Christian realize that what ever does not help his spiritual life hinders it." -A Fourfold Salvation by A. W. Pink (which, btw, I highly recommend) See Php. 4:8.

The average child spends over 1000 hours a year watching TV/movies/playing video games. Even if this was something that was good to spend our time on, this is overload.

Abigail, you made this statement, so I thought I'd answer it: "So, you're just going to believe everything Carl Kerby at the Film Festival shows you and tells you?"

1. Yes, I will believe him. I don't think he's a liar. :P
2. No, not everything. I have my own view, and he has his.
3. He didn't just show me and tell me. He was speaking to an audience of hundreds.

So! I hope to learn and benefit from this discussion as well. :)

Discuss!

A question to consider for starts: what is the recurring theme in the video game world? This should be an easy answer.

That was Abigail's statement. Don't put words into my mouth.

A question to consider for starts: what is the recurring theme in the video game world? This should be an easy answer.

That depends on the game. I mean, seriously. Are you gonna compare Angry Birds with LEGO Indiana Jones?

That was Abigail's statement. Don't put words into my mouth.

Very sorry. My mistake. I'll fix that. :)

A question to consider for starts: what is the recurring theme in the video game world? This should be an easy answer.

That depends on the game. I mean, seriously. Are you gonna compare Angry Birds with LEGO Indiana Jones?

Yes. EDIT: as far as I can tell, there is one theme in the huge majority (there could possibly be a few exceptions) of video games that keeps coming back.

My original statement was: Disney is full of awful stuff anyhow. Video games too. Most media, actually. I have now modified it to the more all-encompassing statement of: The majority of media in the world today (including movies, television, and video games), have an open anti-God, anti-Bible, anti-Christian worldview. **I would agree with you there, that most media out there is trash. However, you shouldn't lump the good together with the bad, just because it's media. That's how people viewed novels, when they first became popular.** Sam told me that this was "a blatant generalization". Is it? Should we, as Christians, be wasting our time on something that is subtly undermining our worldview, our values, our morals? **That depends on the game. You're totally generalizing. And, you could say that about a lot of things. Take _The Sound of Music_. What is the oldest daughter's main struggle? Her love for her boyfriend. Do we see her talking with her father about him, or trying to find the best thing to do? No, we see her trying to assert that she's mature enough to make decisions on her own without parental advice, and trying to see him behind her father's back. Is that encouraging? Is that building up your morals?** This is my point, Sam, to answer your question. It's not _just_ a waste of time. "Let the young Christian realize that what ever does not help his spiritual life hinders it." -*A Fourfold Salvation* by A. W. Pink (which, btw, I highly recommend) See Php. 4:8. **Hmm....so....does that mean that doing things like playing tag, or building LEGO with my friends, or doing anything that isn't directly associated with spiritual matters, is hindering my spiritual life?** The average child spends over 1000 hours a year watching TV/movies/playing video games. Even if this was something that was good to spend our time on, this is overload. **Where did you get that info? I must not be an average kid, then. I haven't gotten to play a game besides Pokemon for a while, as I've been really busy with school, and even then, I'm not sure if I do that for more than an hour. Even then, Until I know where you got that statistic, I'm going to be a bit skeptical.** Sam, you also made this statement: "So, you're just going to believe everything _Carl Kerby at the Film Festival_ shows you and tells you?" **Abigail's statement, not mine.** 1. Yes, I will believe him. I don't think he's a liar. :P **Could be misinformed. We all can be. Myself included.** 2. No, not everything. I have my own view, and he has his. **And I have mine. :)** 3. He didn't just show me and tell me. He was speaking to an audience of hundreds. So! I hope to learn and benefit from this discussion as well. :) Discuss!

A question to consider for starts: what is the recurring theme in the video game world? This should be an easy answer.

That depends on the game. I mean, seriously. Are you gonna compare Angry Birds with LEGO Indiana Jones?

Yes. EDIT: as far as I can tell, there is one theme in the huge majority (there could possibly be a few exceptions) of video games that keeps coming back.

Make the point that you are obviously itching to make. This is gonna be one of your main arguments, isn't it?

My original statement was: Disney is full of awful stuff anyhow. Video games too. Most media, actually. I have now modified it to the more all-encompassing statement of: The majority of media in the world today (including movies, television, and video games), have an open anti-God, anti-Bible, anti-Christian worldview. *I would agree with you there, that most media out there is trash. However, you shouldn't lump the good together with the bad, just because it's media. That's how people viewed novels, when they first became popular.* _That's not what I'm trying to do. But a very hard thing for fallible human minds to do is to pick out the good from the bad when they are not making a specific distinction._ Sam told me that this was "a blatant generalization". Is it? Should we, as Christians, be wasting our time on something that is subtly undermining our worldview, our values, our morals? *That depends on the game. You're totally generalizing. And, you could say that about a lot of things. Take _The Sound of Music_. What is the oldest daughter's main struggle? Her love for her boyfriend. Do we see her talking with her father about him, or trying to find the best thing to do? No, we see her trying to assert that she's mature enough to make decisions on her own without parental advice, and trying to see him behind her father's back. Is that encouraging? Is that building up your morals?* _Generalizations are not always bad. And I do not recommend *The Sound of Music* as a very spiritually uplifting movie. It's just history, is the only really good thing in it._ This is my point, Sam, to answer your question. It's not _just_ a waste of time. "Let the young Christian realize that what ever does not help his spiritual life hinders it." -*A Fourfold Salvation* by A. W. Pink (which, btw, I highly recommend) See Php. 4:8. *Hmm....so....does that mean that doing things like playing tag, or building LEGO with my friends, or doing anything that isn't directly associated with spiritual matters, is hindering my spiritual life?* _I didn't mean *directly associated*. Playing tag is good exercise. We are to take care of our bodies as the temple of the living God. Building LEGO with friends can give you a better friendship with them, and it also exercises your creative capacities that God gave you._ The average child spends over 1000 hours a year watching TV/movies/playing video games. Even if this was something that was good to spend our time on, this is overload. *Where did you get that info? I must not be an average kid, then. I haven't gotten to play a game besides Pokemon for a while, as I've been really busy with school, and even then, I'm not sure if I do that for more than an hour. Even then, Until I know where you got that statistic, I'm going to be a bit skeptical.* _Search for it on the Internet. I might be wrong, since I don't have unlimited access to check that info._ Sam, you also made this statement: "So, you're just going to believe everything _Carl Kerby at the Film Festival_ shows you and tells you?" *Abigail's statement, not mine.* _I fixed that._ 1. Yes, I will believe him. I don't think he's a liar. :P *Could be misinformed. We all can be. Myself included.* 2. No, not everything. I have my own view, and he has his. *And I have mine. :)* _Fine with me! :)_ 3. He didn't just show me and tell me. He was speaking to an audience of hundreds. So! I hope to learn and benefit from this discussion as well. :) Discuss!

A question to consider for starts: what is the recurring theme in the video game world? This should be an easy answer.

That depends on the game. I mean, seriously. Are you gonna compare Angry Birds with LEGO Indiana Jones?

Yes. EDIT: as far as I can tell, there is one theme in the huge majority (there could possibly be a few exceptions) of video games that keeps coming back.

*Make the point that you are obviously itching to make. This is gonna be one of your main arguments, isn't it?*

Think about it. I want you to figure it out, so you'll realize it more fully. And yes, it probably is.

My original statement was: Disney is full of awful stuff anyhow. Video games too. Most media, actually. I have now modified it to the more all-encompassing statement of: The majority of media in the world today (including movies, television, and video games), have an open anti-God, anti-Bible, anti-Christian worldview. *I would agree with you there, that most media out there is trash. However, you shouldn't lump the good together with the bad, just because it's media. That's how people viewed novels, when they first became popular.* _That's not what I'm trying to do. But a very hard thing for fallible human minds to do is to pick out the good from the bad when they are not making a specific distinction._ *Still depends on the media. It's not that hard.* Sam told me that this was "a blatant generalization". Is it? Should we, as Christians, be wasting our time on something that is subtly undermining our worldview, our values, our morals? *That depends on the game. You're totally generalizing. And, you could say that about a lot of things. Take _The Sound of Music_. What is the oldest daughter's main struggle? Her love for her boyfriend. Do we see her talking with her father about him, or trying to find the best thing to do? No, we see her trying to assert that she's mature enough to make decisions on her own without parental advice, and trying to see him behind her father's back. Is that encouraging? Is that building up your morals?* _Generalizations are not always bad. And I do not recommend *The Sound of Music* as a very spiritually uplifting movie. It's just history, is the only really good thing in it._ *Wait. So, because the history is good, you should watch it?* This is my point, Sam, to answer your question. It's not _just_ a waste of time. "Let the young Christian realize that what ever does not help his spiritual life hinders it." -*A Fourfold Salvation* by A. W. Pink (which, btw, I highly recommend) See Php. 4:8. *Hmm....so....does that mean that doing things like playing tag, or building LEGO with my friends, or doing anything that isn't directly associated with spiritual matters, is hindering my spiritual life?* _I didn't mean *directly associated*. Playing tag is good exercise. We are to take care of our bodies as the temple of the living God. Building LEGO with friends can give you a better friendship with them, and it also exercises your creative capacities that God gave you._ *And playing video games can give me a better relationship with my friends too. There are entire, God-centered, gaming communities out there, such as Saints3G, where they play games together, with a Christian and uplifting atmosphere. Is that wrong?* The average child spends over 1000 hours a year watching TV/movies/playing video games. Even if this was something that was good to spend our time on, this is overload. *Where did you get that info? I must not be an average kid, then. I haven't gotten to play a game besides Pokemon for a while, as I've been really busy with school, and even then, I'm not sure if I do that for more than an hour. Even then, Until I know where you got that statistic, I'm going to be a bit skeptical.* _Search for it on the Internet. I might be wrong, since I don't have unlimited access to check that info._ *Checked it out, and I'd say that he was right there, according to stats I've read. But then, those stats I looked up were really taking all forms of media on screens together, TV, Internet, and such included. Even so, just because someone does it that much doesn't mean everyone does.* Sam, you also made this statement: "So, you're just going to believe everything _Carl Kerby at the Film Festival_ shows you and tells you?" *Abigail's statement, not mine.* _I fixed that._ *I appreciate it.* 1. Yes, I will believe him. I don't think he's a liar. :P *Could be misinformed. We all can be. Myself included.* 2. No, not everything. I have my own view, and he has his. *And I have mine. :)* _Fine with me! :)_ 3. He didn't just show me and tell me. He was speaking to an audience of hundreds. So! I hope to learn and benefit from this discussion as well. :) Discuss!

A question to consider for starts: what is the recurring theme in the video game world? This should be an easy answer.

That depends on the game. I mean, seriously. Are you gonna compare Angry Birds with LEGO Indiana Jones?

Yes. EDIT: as far as I can tell, there is one theme in the huge majority (there could possibly be a few exceptions) of video games that keeps coming back.

*Make the point that you are obviously itching to make. This is gonna be one of your main arguments, isn't it?*

_Think about it. I want you to figure it out, so you'll realize it more fully. And yes, it probably is._

Just tell me. Seriously.

Violence.

Violence.

Which, is a daily part of life. Seriously. You have brothers. How many boys wouldn't want to be a brave knight fighting dragons? Or the Marine who saves his country from terrorists? God himself used violence to take out the Israel's enemies. In fact, the Bible itself _is_ a violent book. I don't believe that violence is wrong.

I do, however, believe that violence _for no reason or for the wrong reasons_ is wrong. A game that encourages you running around killing random people is a bad game in my book. Which is why I don't play the Grand Theft Auto series (if the title doesn't say it all!).

Violence.

I don't think all games have a lot of violence in them. I have a game called Endless Ocean, and the most violent it gets is when you get pushed by a current. Is that really violent? I also have the sequel to the game, and it's a little more violent, but it shows more realistically how dangerous diving can be. (Of course it still doesn't show how dangerous diving really can be. It only takes it so far.) One other game I can think of that doesn't have violence is Big Brain Academy, Wii Degree. It's full of fun games that can help you with memorizing, identifying, analyzing, computing, and visualizing. The most violent it gets is popping balloons and whacking moles, and how violent is that?

My original statement was: Disney is full of awful stuff anyhow. Video games too. Most media, actually. I have now modified it to the more all-encompassing statement of: The majority of media in the world today (including movies, television, and video games), have an open anti-God, anti-Bible, anti-Christian worldview. *I would agree with you there, that most media out there is trash. However, you shouldn't lump the good together with the bad, just because it's media. That's how people viewed novels, when they first became popular.* _That's not what I'm trying to do. But a very hard thing for fallible human minds to do is to pick out the good from the bad when they are not making a specific distinction._ *Still depends on the media. It's not that hard.* _I disagree. You can do it sometimes, but especially with video games, you're focused on the game itself. AND, even though you are focused on the game, you're still going to hear the anti-God views and words subconsciously, and it's going to stay in your mind, once you let it in._ Sam told me that this was "a blatant generalization". Is it? Should we, as Christians, be wasting our time on something that is subtly undermining our worldview, our values, our morals? *That depends on the game. You're totally generalizing. And, you could say that about a lot of things. Take _The Sound of Music_. What is the oldest daughter's main struggle? Her love for her boyfriend. Do we see her talking with her father about him, or trying to find the best thing to do? No, we see her trying to assert that she's mature enough to make decisions on her own without parental advice, and trying to see him behind her father's back. Is that encouraging? Is that building up your morals?* _Generalizations are not always bad. And I do not recommend *The Sound of Music* as a very spiritually uplifting movie. It's just history, is the only really good thing in it._ *Wait. So, because the history is good, you should watch it?* _Not necessarily. That is a choice we all will have to make individually. It's not like we're going to find a perfect movie, that doesn't have any bad influences in it. What we can do, though, is *stop* the movie, as a family, when it comes to a not-so-good part, and discuss what is wrong in the scene. This way, we can turn around some of the parts that would influence us for bad, and instead use them to sharpen our discernment. Each family and each individual will have to draw the line for themselves, though. How much is too much?_ This is my point, Sam, to answer your question. It's not _just_ a waste of time. "Let the young Christian realize that what ever does not help his spiritual life hinders it." -*A Fourfold Salvation* by A. W. Pink (which, btw, I highly recommend) See Php. 4:8. *Hmm....so....does that mean that doing things like playing tag, or building LEGO with my friends, or doing anything that isn't directly associated with spiritual matters, is hindering my spiritual life?* _I didn't mean *directly associated*. Playing tag is good exercise. We are to take care of our bodies as the temple of the living God. Building LEGO with friends can give you a better friendship with them, and it also exercises your creative capacities that God gave you._ *And playing video games can give me a better relationship with my friends too. There are entire, God-centered, gaming communities out there, such as Saints3G, where they play games together, with a Christian and uplifting atmosphere. Is that wrong?* _Even if playing video games gives you a better relationship with your friends, what is actually *on* the video game? I think it is going to influence you more directly than sitting there next to a friend, headphones on, eyes glued to the screen, both not really paying much attention to the other person._ The average child spends over 1000 hours a year watching TV/movies/playing video games. Even if this was something that was good to spend our time on, this is overload. *Where did you get that info? I must not be an average kid, then. I haven't gotten to play a game besides Pokemon for a while, as I've been really busy with school, and even then, I'm not sure if I do that for more than an hour. Even then, Until I know where you got that statistic, I'm going to be a bit skeptical.* _Search for it on the Internet. I might be wrong, since I don't have unlimited access to check that info._ *Checked it out, and I'd say that he was right there, according to stats I've read. But then, those stats I looked up were really taking all forms of media on screens together, TV, Internet, and such included. Even so, just because someone does it that much doesn't mean everyone does.* _What it does show is that there is a problem. All of you would probably agree with me if I said "1000 hours a year spent on media is way too much", but I think that a lot less than that is also too much. A lot less._ Sam, you also made this statement: "So, you're just going to believe everything _Carl Kerby at the Film Festival_ shows you and tells you?" *Abigail's statement, not mine.* _I fixed that._ *I appreciate it.* 1. Yes, I will believe him. I don't think he's a liar. :P *Could be misinformed. We all can be. Myself included.* 2. No, not everything. I have my own view, and he has his. *And I have mine. :)* _Fine with me! :)_ 3. He didn't just show me and tell me. He was speaking to an audience of hundreds. So! I hope to learn and benefit from this discussion as well. :) Discuss!

Violence.

*Which, is a daily part of life. Seriously. You have brothers. How many boys wouldn't want to be a brave knight fighting dragons? Or the Marine who saves his country from terrorists? God himself used violence to take out the Israel's enemies. In fact, the Bible itself _is_ a violent book. I don't believe that violence is wrong.* *I do, however, believe that violence _for no reason or for the wrong reasons_ is wrong. A game that encourages you running around killing random people is a bad game in my book. Which is why I don't play the Grand Theft Auto series (if the title doesn't say it all!).*

No, it's not a daily part of life. Seriously. Catch this: my brothers run around hunting deer. Catching fish. Shooting bears. (Imaginary, of course. :P) They automatically know (partially from my parents' training, I'll grant you), that they shouldn't pretend to kill people.

And God using violence is a completely different thing than humans using violence. What about the sixth commandment? Jesus said to turn the other cheek, and to love your enemies. Aren't we theoretically under the "new covenant" that Jesus put into place?

Violence.

I don't think all games have a lot of violence in them. I have a game called Endless Ocean, and the most violent it gets is when you get pushed by a current. Is that really violent? I also have the sequel to the game, and it's a little more violent, but it shows more realistically how dangerous diving can be. (Of course it still doesn't show how dangerous diving really can be. It only takes it so far.) One other game I can think of that doesn't have violence is Big Brain Academy, Wii Degree. It's full of fun games that can help you with memorizing, identifying, analyzing, computing, and visualizing. The most violent it gets is popping balloons and whacking moles, and how violent is that?

I did say there was exceptions. I'm sure that both you and Sam have games like that that don't have much or any violence. But we're not looking at those here. The truth remains that *the great majority* of video games out there have violence. Unnecessary violence. UnBiblical violence.

Violence.

*Which, is a daily part of life. Seriously. You have brothers. How many boys wouldn't want to be a brave knight fighting dragons? Or the Marine who saves his country from terrorists? God himself used violence to take out the Israel's enemies. In fact, the Bible itself _is_ a violent book. I don't believe that violence is wrong.* *I do, however, believe that violence _for no reason or for the wrong reasons_ is wrong. A game that encourages you running around killing random people is a bad game in my book. Which is why I don't play the Grand Theft Auto series (if the title doesn't say it all!).*

Same here.

<blockand</blockquote>

I did say there was exceptions. I'm sure that both you and Sam have games like that that don't have much or any violence. But we're not looking at those here. The truth remains that *the great majority* of video games out there have violence. Unnecessary violence. UnBiblical violence.</blockquote>

Name one. One with ungodly violence. Unbiblical violence. Violence that is unnecessary.

Violence.

*Which, is a daily part of life. Seriously. You have brothers. How many boys wouldn't want to be a brave knight fighting dragons? Or the Marine who saves his country from terrorists? God himself used violence to take out the Israel's enemies. In fact, the Bible itself _is_ a violent book. I don't believe that violence is wrong.* *I do, however, believe that violence _for no reason or for the wrong reasons_ is wrong. A game that encourages you running around killing random people is a bad game in my book. Which is why I don't play the Grand Theft Auto series (if the title doesn't say it all!).*

_No, it's not a daily part of life. Seriously. Catch this: my brothers run around hunting deer. Catching fish. Shooting bears. (Imaginary, of course. :P) They automatically know (partially from my parents' training, I'll grant you), that they shouldn't pretend to kill people._ _And God using violence is a completely different thing than humans using violence. What about the sixth commandment? Jesus said to turn the other cheek, and to love your enemies. Aren't we theoretically under the "new covenant" that Jesus put into place?_

And now we go back to "Should You Kill At All?". I'm sorry, but if a nation is trying to attack and destroy myself, and/or my fellow countrymen, I will fight to protect them. God commands us to love our neighbors _as ourselves_. In other words, protect others _as you would protect yourself_. If protecting yourself means blowing your enemy to kingdom come, then so be it: it's _necessary_. Unnecessary violence is wrong, but fighting to help and protect? That's something worth fighting for.

My original statement was: Disney is full of awful stuff anyhow. Video games too. Most media, actually. I have now modified it to the more all-encompassing statement of: The majority of media in the world today (including movies, television, and video games), have an open anti-God, anti-Bible, anti-Christian worldview. *I would agree with you there, that most media out there is trash. However, you shouldn't lump the good together with the bad, just because it's media. That's how people viewed novels, when they first became popular.* _That's not what I'm trying to do. But a very hard thing for fallible human minds to do is to pick out the good from the bad when they are not making a specific distinction._ *Still depends on the media. It's not that hard.* _I disagree. You can do it sometimes, but especially with video games, you're focused on the game itself. AND, even though you are focused on the game, you're still going to hear the anti-God views and words subconsciously, and it's going to stay in your mind, once you let it in._ *What about movies? You're focused on the movie itself, and you can find anti-God views and words in those too. Should we then give up on movies?* Sam told me that this was "a blatant generalization". Is it? Should we, as Christians, be wasting our time on something that is subtly undermining our worldview, our values, our morals? *That depends on the game. You're totally generalizing. And, you could say that about a lot of things. Take _The Sound of Music_. What is the oldest daughter's main struggle? Her love for her boyfriend. Do we see her talking with her father about him, or trying to find the best thing to do? No, we see her trying to assert that she's mature enough to make decisions on her own without parental advice, and trying to see him behind her father's back. Is that encouraging? Is that building up your morals?* _Generalizations are not always bad. And I do not recommend *The Sound of Music* as a very spiritually uplifting movie. It's just history, is the only really good thing in it._ *Wait. So, because the history is good, you should watch it?* _Not necessarily. That is a choice we all will have to make individually. It's not like we're going to find a perfect movie, that doesn't have any bad influences in it. What we can do, though, is *stop* the movie, as a family, when it comes to a not-so-good part, and discuss what is wrong in the scene. This way, we can turn around some of the parts that would influence us for bad, and instead use them to sharpen our discernment. Each family and each individual will have to draw the line for themselves, though. How much is too much?_ *So then, why is it just _so_ taboo for individuals or families to use video games to sharpen their own discernment? You can always _pause_ a game, y'know,* This is my point, Sam, to answer your question. It's not _just_ a waste of time. "Let the young Christian realize that what ever does not help his spiritual life hinders it." -*A Fourfold Salvation* by A. W. Pink (which, btw, I highly recommend) See Php. 4:8. *Hmm....so....does that mean that doing things like playing tag, or building LEGO with my friends, or doing anything that isn't directly associated with spiritual matters, is hindering my spiritual life?* _I didn't mean *directly associated*. Playing tag is good exercise. We are to take care of our bodies as the temple of the living God. Building LEGO with friends can give you a better friendship with them, and it also exercises your creative capacities that God gave you._ *And playing video games can give me a better relationship with my friends too. There are entire, God-centered, gaming communities out there, such as Saints3G, where they play games together, with a Christian and uplifting atmosphere. Is that wrong?* _Even if playing video games gives you a better relationship with your friends, what is actually *on* the video game? I think it is going to influence you more directly than sitting there next to a friend, headphones on, eyes glued to the screen, both not really paying much attention to the other person._ *Yeah....no. When I have a friend with me, playing say: Batman: Arkham Origins, we have SO much fun talking back and forth when we're playing. Strategy games are known for bringing people together in games. Why are you saying that I can't focus on my friends as I play?* *EDIT: Plus, "having headphones on", is an assumption. My friends and I don't play with headphones on, when we're together. You keep acting like playing video games turns you into a mindless zombie for the duration of your playtime. It doesn't. In fact, the U.S Department of Defense did research, and showed that gamers are 20% smarter than non-gamers. I will post the link to that article.* http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=57695 The average child spends over 1000 hours a year watching TV/movies/playing video games. Even if this was something that was good to spend our time on, this is overload. *Where did you get that info? I must not be an average kid, then. I haven't gotten to play a game besides Pokemon for a while, as I've been really busy with school, and even then, I'm not sure if I do that for more than an hour. Even then, Until I know where you got that statistic, I'm going to be a bit skeptical.* _Search for it on the Internet. I might be wrong, since I don't have unlimited access to check that info._ *Checked it out, and I'd say that he was right there, according to stats I've read. But then, those stats I looked up were really taking all forms of media on screens together, TV, Internet, and such included. Even so, just because someone does it that much doesn't mean everyone does.* _What it does show is that there is a problem. All of you would probably agree with me if I said "1000 hours a year spent on media is way too much", but I think that a lot less than that is also too much. A lot less._ *Still, stats like this are often broad. I mean, how can you, _accurately_, determine such a number? You really can't ask everyone in the nation the same question, and so it's an estimate. A close estimate, but an estimate nonetheless. And, I'd still say that _it's up to the individual/family_. If you want to spend your time that way, go ahead.* Sam, you also made this statement: "So, you're just going to believe everything _Carl Kerby at the Film Festival_ shows you and tells you?" *Abigail's statement, not mine.* _I fixed that._ *I appreciate it.* 1. Yes, I will believe him. I don't think he's a liar. :P *Could be misinformed. We all can be. Myself included.* 2. No, not everything. I have my own view, and he has his. *And I have mine. :)* _Fine with me! :)_ 3. He didn't just show me and tell me. He was speaking to an audience of hundreds. So! I hope to learn and benefit from this discussion as well. :) Discuss!

So I have been thinking about this for a while and I'm coming to see that my position was not fully correct.

blinks

Wow. Really?

<blockand

I did say there was exceptions. I'm sure that both you and Sam have games like that that don't have much or any violence. But we're not looking at those here. The truth remains that *the great majority* of video games out there have violence. Unnecessary violence. UnBiblical violence.</blockquote>

Name one. One with ungodly violence. Unbiblical violence. Violence that is unnecessary.</blockquote>

The Slaying of Isaac.

Mind you, I do not have personal experience with most video games out there. I am thankful to my parents for protecting me from most worldly media. Yet I have seen enough to know that they are violent.

Noah, you call running around trying to escape from zombies, or chasing whoever, the bad guy, shooting at people at every turn, all in a game, necessary?

Violence.

*Which, is a daily part of life. Seriously. You have brothers. How many boys wouldn't want to be a brave knight fighting dragons? Or the Marine who saves his country from terrorists? God himself used violence to take out the Israel's enemies. In fact, the Bible itself _is_ a violent book. I don't believe that violence is wrong.* *I do, however, believe that violence _for no reason or for the wrong reasons_ is wrong. A game that encourages you running around killing random people is a bad game in my book. Which is why I don't play the Grand Theft Auto series (if the title doesn't say it all!).*

_No, it's not a daily part of life. Seriously. Catch this: my brothers run around hunting deer. Catching fish. Shooting bears. (Imaginary, of course. :P) They automatically know (partially from my parents' training, I'll grant you), that they shouldn't pretend to kill people._ _And God using violence is a completely different thing than humans using violence. What about the sixth commandment? Jesus said to turn the other cheek, and to love your enemies. Aren't we theoretically under the "new covenant" that Jesus put into place?_

*And now we go back to "Should You Kill At All?". I'm sorry, but if a nation is trying to attack and destroy myself, and/or my fellow countrymen, I will fight to protect them. God commands us to love our neighbors _as ourselves_. In other words, protect others _as you would protect yourself_. If protecting yourself means blowing your enemy to kingdom come, then so be it: it's _necessary_. Unnecessary violence is wrong, but fighting to help and protect? That's something worth fighting for.*

I most certainly agree with you that we (men at least) should fight to protect their family, country, etc. I don't think we should fight to protect ourselves, at least in many cases. But what about in video games? It's not real. It's pretend. Should you even pretend, when you really *don't want to* (or shouldn't want to), kill another fellow human being, loved by God?

<blockand

_I did say there was exceptions. I'm sure that both you and Sam have games like that that don't have much or any violence. But we're not looking at those here. The truth remains that *the great majority* of video games out there have violence. Unnecessary violence. UnBiblical violence._

Name one. One with ungodly violence. Unbiblical violence. Violence that is unnecessary.</blockquote>

The Slaying of Isaac.

Mind you, I do not have personal experience with most video games out there. I am thankful to my parents for protecting me from most worldly media. Yet I have seen enough to know that they are violent.

Noah, you call running around trying to escape from zombies, or chasing whoever, the bad guy, shooting at people at every turn, all in a game, necessary?</blockquote>

Is that even a _game_? Where'd you find this?

You admit you have little experience. Which means that most of your points are going to be assumptions. I will agree that there are a lot of games that have elements of fighting, but _is that wrong_?

That's such a generalization, I don't even want to answer. Seriously. Is every game centered around needlessly murdering people? NO! In fact, most aren't!

Violence.

*Which, is a daily part of life. Seriously. You have brothers. How many boys wouldn't want to be a brave knight fighting dragons? Or the Marine who saves his country from terrorists? God himself used violence to take out the Israel's enemies. In fact, the Bible itself _is_ a violent book. I don't believe that violence is wrong.* *I do, however, believe that violence _for no reason or for the wrong reasons_ is wrong. A game that encourages you running around killing random people is a bad game in my book. Which is why I don't play the Grand Theft Auto series (if the title doesn't say it all!).*

_No, it's not a daily part of life. Seriously. Catch this: my brothers run around hunting deer. Catching fish. Shooting bears. (Imaginary, of course. :P) They automatically know (partially from my parents' training, I'll grant you), that they shouldn't pretend to kill people._ _And God using violence is a completely different thing than humans using violence. What about the sixth commandment? Jesus said to turn the other cheek, and to love your enemies. Aren't we theoretically under the "new covenant" that Jesus put into place?_

*And now we go back to "Should You Kill At All?". I'm sorry, but if a nation is trying to attack and destroy myself, and/or my fellow countrymen, I will fight to protect them. God commands us to love our neighbors _as ourselves_. In other words, protect others _as you would protect yourself_. If protecting yourself means blowing your enemy to kingdom come, then so be it: it's _necessary_. Unnecessary violence is wrong, but fighting to help and protect? That's something worth fighting for.*

_I most certainly agree with you that we (men at least) should fight to protect their family, country, etc. I don't think we should fight to protect ourselves, at least in many cases. But what about in video games? It's not real. It's pretend. Should you even pretend, when you really *don't want to* (or shouldn't want to), kill another fellow human being, loved by God?_

If the game will help in instilling in you a love for your country, and encourages you to be ready to do what it takes to protect yourself and others, is it wrong?

My original statement was: Disney is full of awful stuff anyhow. Video games too. Most media, actually. I have now modified it to the more all-encompassing statement of: The majority of media in the world today (including movies, television, and video games), have an open anti-God, anti-Bible, anti-Christian worldview. *I would agree with you there, that most media out there is trash. However, you shouldn't lump the good together with the bad, just because it's media. That's how people viewed novels, when they first became popular.* _That's not what I'm trying to do. But a very hard thing for fallible human minds to do is to pick out the good from the bad when they are not making a specific distinction._ *Still depends on the media. It's not that hard.* _I disagree. You can do it sometimes, but especially with video games, you're focused on the game itself. AND, even though you are focused on the game, you're still going to hear the anti-God views and words subconsciously, and it's going to stay in your mind, once you let it in._ *What about movies? You're focused on the movie itself, and you can find anti-God views and words in those too. Should we then give up on movies?* _Not necessarily. I think we as Christians should not watch those (or most of those) movies that have anti-God views and words in them. There are plenty of Christian movies that have a good message. I think we should watch those, stay away from "secular" stuff, and *especially* stay away from movies by Hollywood and Disney and producers like that. Older movies are often better as well._ Sam told me that this was "a blatant generalization". Is it? Should we, as Christians, be wasting our time on something that is subtly undermining our worldview, our values, our morals? *That depends on the game. You're totally generalizing. And, you could say that about a lot of things. Take _The Sound of Music_. What is the oldest daughter's main struggle? Her love for her boyfriend. Do we see her talking with her father about him, or trying to find the best thing to do? No, we see her trying to assert that she's mature enough to make decisions on her own without parental advice, and trying to see him behind her father's back. Is that encouraging? Is that building up your morals?* _Generalizations are not always bad. And I do not recommend *The Sound of Music* as a very spiritually uplifting movie. It's just history, is the only really good thing in it._ *Wait. So, because the history is good, you should watch it?* _Not necessarily. That is a choice we all will have to make individually. It's not like we're going to find a perfect movie, that doesn't have any bad influences in it. What we can do, though, is *stop* the movie, as a family, when it comes to a not-so-good part, and discuss what is wrong in the scene. This way, we can turn around some of the parts that would influence us for bad, and instead use them to sharpen our discernment. Each family and each individual will have to draw the line for themselves, though. How much is too much?_ *So then, why is it just _so_ taboo for individuals or families to use video games to sharpen their own discernment? You can always _pause_ a game, y'know,* _But are there really video games that have a good message? That help you in your Christian walk? I think that the huge majority of video games are *so full* of bad messages that it is impossible to catch even close to all of them._ This is my point, Sam, to answer your question. It's not _just_ a waste of time. "Let the young Christian realize that what ever does not help his spiritual life hinders it." -*A Fourfold Salvation* by A. W. Pink (which, btw, I highly recommend) See Php. 4:8. *Hmm....so....does that mean that doing things like playing tag, or building LEGO with my friends, or doing anything that isn't directly associated with spiritual matters, is hindering my spiritual life?* _I didn't mean *directly associated*. Playing tag is good exercise. We are to take care of our bodies as the temple of the living God. Building LEGO with friends can give you a better friendship with them, and it also exercises your creative capacities that God gave you._ *And playing video games can give me a better relationship with my friends too. There are entire, God-centered, gaming communities out there, such as Saints3G, where they play games together, with a Christian and uplifting atmosphere. Is that wrong?* _Even if playing video games gives you a better relationship with your friends, what is actually *on* the video game? I think it is going to influence you more directly than sitting there next to a friend, headphones on, eyes glued to the screen, both not really paying much attention to the other person._ *Yeah....no. When I have a friend with me, playing say: Batman: Arkham Origins, we have SO much fun talking back and forth when we're playing. Strategy games are known for bringing people together in games. Why are you saying that I can't focus on my friends as I play?* *EDIT: Plus, "having headphones on", is an assumption. My friends and I don't play with headphones on, when we're together. You keep acting like playing video games turns you into a mindless zombie for the duration of your playtime. It doesn't. In fact, the U.S Department of Defense did research, and showed that gamers are 20% smarter than non-gamers. I will post the link to that article.* http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=57695 _Okay. You say that you can improve your relationship with your friends while playing video games together. I very much enjoy playing board games and card games with my family and friends. I can understand that. *That doesn't change what is actually on the game you're playing.* If it makes you smarter, and slows you down in your walk with God, it's not worth it._ The average child spends over 1000 hours a year watching TV/movies/playing video games. Even if this was something that was good to spend our time on, this is overload. *Where did you get that info? I must not be an average kid, then. I haven't gotten to play a game besides Pokemon for a while, as I've been really busy with school, and even then, I'm not sure if I do that for more than an hour. Even then, Until I know where you got that statistic, I'm going to be a bit skeptical.* _Search for it on the Internet. I might be wrong, since I don't have unlimited access to check that info._ *Checked it out, and I'd say that he was right there, according to stats I've read. But then, those stats I looked up were really taking all forms of media on screens together, TV, Internet, and such included. Even so, just because someone does it that much doesn't mean everyone does.* _What it does show is that there is a problem. All of you would probably agree with me if I said "1000 hours a year spent on media is way too much", but I think that a lot less than that is also too much. A lot less._ *Still, stats like this are often broad. I mean, how can you, _accurately_, determine such a number? You really can't ask everyone in the nation the same question, and so it's an estimate. A close estimate, but an estimate nonetheless. And, I'd still say that _it's up to the individual/family_. If you want to spend your time that way, go ahead.* _It is up to the individual/family. I think that such a statistic is worthy of trust. It's an average, not of everyone in the nation, but of a large sample of those people._ Sam, you also made this statement: "So, you're just going to believe everything _Carl Kerby at the Film Festival_ shows you and tells you?" *Abigail's statement, not mine.* _I fixed that._ *I appreciate it.* 1. Yes, I will believe him. I don't think he's a liar. :P *Could be misinformed. We all can be. Myself included.* 2. No, not everything. I have my own view, and he has his. *And I have mine. :)* _Fine with me! :)_ 3. He didn't just show me and tell me. He was speaking to an audience of hundreds. So! I hope to learn and benefit from this discussion as well. :) Discuss!

So I have been thinking about this for a while and I'm coming to see that my position was not fully correct.

What was your position?

<blockand

_I did say there was exceptions. I'm sure that both you and Sam have games like that that don't have much or any violence. But we're not looking at those here. The truth remains that *the great majority* of video games out there have violence. Unnecessary violence. UnBiblical violence._

Name one. One with ungodly violence. Unbiblical violence. Violence that is unnecessary.

The Slaying of Isaac.

Mind you, I do not have personal experience with most video games out there. I am thankful to my parents for protecting me from most worldly media. Yet I have seen enough to know that they are violent.

Noah, you call running around trying to escape from zombies, or chasing whoever, the bad guy, shooting at people at every turn, all in a game, necessary?</blockquote>

Is that even a _game_? Where'd you find this?

You admit you have little experience. Which means that most of your points are going to be assumptions. I will agree that there are a lot of games that have elements of fighting, but _is that wrong_?

That's such a generalization, I don't even want to answer. Seriously. Is every game centered around needlessly murdering people? NO! In fact, most aren't!</blockquote>

I don't think we should murder people in most cases! The great majority of games *are* needlessly murdering people. It's not like you're going to have that kind of a life.

My original statement was: Disney is full of awful stuff anyhow. Video games too. Most media, actually. I have now modified it to the more all-encompassing statement of: The majority of media in the world today (including movies, television, and video games), have an open anti-God, anti-Bible, anti-Christian worldview. *I would agree with you there, that most media out there is trash. However, you shouldn't lump the good together with the bad, just because it's media. That's how people viewed novels, when they first became popular.* _That's not what I'm trying to do. But a very hard thing for fallible human minds to do is to pick out the good from the bad when they are not making a specific distinction._ *Still depends on the media. It's not that hard.* _I disagree. You can do it sometimes, but especially with video games, you're focused on the game itself. AND, even though you are focused on the game, you're still going to hear the anti-God views and words subconsciously, and it's going to stay in your mind, once you let it in._ *What about movies? You're focused on the movie itself, and you can find anti-God views and words in those too. Should we then give up on movies?* _Not necessarily. I think we as Christians should not watch those (or most of those) movies that have anti-God views and words in them. There are plenty of Christian movies that have a good message. I think we should watch those, stay away from "secular" stuff, and *especially* stay away from movies by Hollywood and Disney and producers like that. Older movies are often better as well._ Sam told me that this was "a blatant generalization". Is it? Should we, as Christians, be wasting our time on something that is subtly undermining our worldview, our values, our morals? *That depends on the game. You're totally generalizing. And, you could say that about a lot of things. Take _The Sound of Music_. What is the oldest daughter's main struggle? Her love for her boyfriend. Do we see her talking with her father about him, or trying to find the best thing to do? No, we see her trying to assert that she's mature enough to make decisions on her own without parental advice, and trying to see him behind her father's back. Is that encouraging? Is that building up your morals?* _Generalizations are not always bad. And I do not recommend *The Sound of Music* as a very spiritually uplifting movie. It's just history, is the only really good thing in it._ *Wait. So, because the history is good, you should watch it?* _Not necessarily. That is a choice we all will have to make individually. It's not like we're going to find a perfect movie, that doesn't have any bad influences in it. What we can do, though, is *stop* the movie, as a family, when it comes to a not-so-good part, and discuss what is wrong in the scene. This way, we can turn around some of the parts that would influence us for bad, and instead use them to sharpen our discernment. Each family and each individual will have to draw the line for themselves, though. How much is too much?_ *So then, why is it just _so_ taboo for individuals or families to use video games to sharpen their own discernment? You can always _pause_ a game, y'know,* _But are there really video games that have a good message? That help you in your Christian walk? I think that the huge majority of video games are *so full* of bad messages that it is impossible to catch even close to all of them._ *That is STILL a generalization. And we can apply that to any book, movie, TV show, whatever! Which is why the discerning Christian will learn to take the good, and know what is bad, and _why_ the bad is bad, in any of those situations.* *Look. You keep saying that there is nothing good in most video games. Prove it. Give me a few examples. I'm tired of hearing generalizations and assumptions. Give me proof. I gave you that article, you give me solid evidence.* This is my point, Sam, to answer your question. It's not _just_ a waste of time. "Let the young Christian realize that what ever does not help his spiritual life hinders it." -*A Fourfold Salvation* by A. W. Pink (which, btw, I highly recommend) See Php. 4:8. *Hmm....so....does that mean that doing things like playing tag, or building LEGO with my friends, or doing anything that isn't directly associated with spiritual matters, is hindering my spiritual life?* _I didn't mean *directly associated*. Playing tag is good exercise. We are to take care of our bodies as the temple of the living God. Building LEGO with friends can give you a better friendship with them, and it also exercises your creative capacities that God gave you._ *And playing video games can give me a better relationship with my friends too. There are entire, God-centered, gaming communities out there, such as Saints3G, where they play games together, with a Christian and uplifting atmosphere. Is that wrong?* _Even if playing video games gives you a better relationship with your friends, what is actually *on* the video game? I think it is going to influence you more directly than sitting there next to a friend, headphones on, eyes glued to the screen, both not really paying much attention to the other person._ *Yeah....no. When I have a friend with me, playing say: Batman: Arkham Origins, we have SO much fun talking back and forth when we're playing. Strategy games are known for bringing people together in games. Why are you saying that I can't focus on my friends as I play?* *EDIT: Plus, "having headphones on", is an assumption. My friends and I don't play with headphones on, when we're together. You keep acting like playing video games turns you into a mindless zombie for the duration of your playtime. It doesn't. In fact, the U.S Department of Defense did research, and showed that gamers are 20% smarter than non-gamers. I will post the link to that article.* http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=57695 _Okay. You say that you can improve your relationship with your friends while playing video games together. I very much enjoy playing board games and card games with my family and friends. I can understand that. *That doesn't change what is actually on the game you're playing.* If it makes you smarter, and slows you down in your walk with God, it's not worth it._ *And still, you are assuming that playing a video game will darken your soul, and take you to Hell, basically. Why won't playing Monopoly do the same? You're pretending to be a rich business tycoon who's sole purpose is to amass as much money as possible while charging other people as much as possible to make them as poor as possible. So then, should we not play Monopoly?* The average child spends over 1000 hours a year watching TV/movies/playing video games. Even if this was something that was good to spend our time on, this is overload. *Where did you get that info? I must not be an average kid, then. I haven't gotten to play a game besides Pokemon for a while, as I've been really busy with school, and even then, I'm not sure if I do that for more than an hour. Even then, Until I know where you got that statistic, I'm going to be a bit skeptical.* _Search for it on the Internet. I might be wrong, since I don't have unlimited access to check that info._ *Checked it out, and I'd say that he was right there, according to stats I've read. But then, those stats I looked up were really taking all forms of media on screens together, TV, Internet, and such included. Even so, just because someone does it that much doesn't mean everyone does.* _What it does show is that there is a problem. All of you would probably agree with me if I said "1000 hours a year spent on media is way too much", but I think that a lot less than that is also too much. A lot less._ *Still, stats like this are often broad. I mean, how can you, _accurately_, determine such a number? You really can't ask everyone in the nation the same question, and so it's an estimate. A close estimate, but an estimate nonetheless. And, I'd still say that _it's up to the individual/family_. If you want to spend your time that way, go ahead.* _It is up to the individual/family. I think that such a statistic is worthy of trust. It's an average, not of everyone in the nation, but of a large sample of those people._ Sam, you also made this statement: "So, you're just going to believe everything _Carl Kerby at the Film Festival_ shows you and tells you?" *Abigail's statement, not mine.* _I fixed that._ *I appreciate it.* 1. Yes, I will believe him. I don't think he's a liar. :P *Could be misinformed. We all can be. Myself included.* 2. No, not everything. I have my own view, and he has his. *And I have mine. :)* _Fine with me! :)_ 3. He didn't just show me and tell me. He was speaking to an audience of hundreds. So! I hope to learn and benefit from this discussion as well. :) Discuss!

Violence.

*Which, is a daily part of life. Seriously. You have brothers. How many boys wouldn't want to be a brave knight fighting dragons? Or the Marine who saves his country from terrorists? God himself used violence to take out the Israel's enemies. In fact, the Bible itself _is_ a violent book. I don't believe that violence is wrong.* *I do, however, believe that violence _for no reason or for the wrong reasons_ is wrong. A game that encourages you running around killing random people is a bad game in my book. Which is why I don't play the Grand Theft Auto series (if the title doesn't say it all!).*

_No, it's not a daily part of life. Seriously. Catch this: my brothers run around hunting deer. Catching fish. Shooting bears. (Imaginary, of course. :P) They automatically know (partially from my parents' training, I'll grant you), that they shouldn't pretend to kill people._ _And God using violence is a completely different thing than humans using violence. What about the sixth commandment? Jesus said to turn the other cheek, and to love your enemies. Aren't we theoretically under the "new covenant" that Jesus put into place?_

*And now we go back to "Should You Kill At All?". I'm sorry, but if a nation is trying to attack and destroy myself, and/or my fellow countrymen, I will fight to protect them. God commands us to love our neighbors _as ourselves_. In other words, protect others _as you would protect yourself_. If protecting yourself means blowing your enemy to kingdom come, then so be it: it's _necessary_. Unnecessary violence is wrong, but fighting to help and protect? That's something worth fighting for.*

_I most certainly agree with you that we (men at least) should fight to protect their family, country, etc. I don't think we should fight to protect ourselves, at least in many cases. But what about in video games? It's not real. It's pretend. Should you even pretend, when you really *don't want to* (or shouldn't want to), kill another fellow human being, loved by God?_

*If the game will help in instilling in you a love for your country, and encourages you to be ready to do what it takes to protect yourself and others, is it wrong?*

Not necessarily. Real war isn't even like that. I think we should protect helpless people that *need* help. To tell you the truth, I don't really love America the way it is right now. I hate the abortion, the debauchery in public schools, the way Christians and all the rest use birth control to refuse God's blessings! I hate how Obama is trying to make us pay for people to kill their babies. I hate how homosexuals are imposing their "rights" on other people. Our freedom is being taken away right now. We aren't being called to fight with other countries to protect our country's freedom. We are being called by God to protect our Christian rights and make a difference right here, with words, not violence. I love the people under the yoke of bondage, and I want to free them. I hate the sins.

<blockand

_I did say there was exceptions. I'm sure that both you and Sam have games like that that don't have much or any violence. But we're not looking at those here. The truth remains that *the great majority* of video games out there have violence. Unnecessary violence. UnBiblical violence._

Name one. One with ungodly violence. Unbiblical violence. Violence that is unnecessary.

The Slaying of Isaac. Mind you, I do not have personal experience with most video games out there. I am thankful to my parents for protecting me from most worldly media. Yet I have seen enough to know that they are violent. Noah, you call running around trying to escape from zombies, or chasing whoever, the bad guy, shooting at people at every turn, all in a game, necessary?

Is that even a _game_? Where'd you find this?

You admit you have little experience. Which means that most of your points are going to be assumptions. I will agree that there are a lot of games that have elements of fighting, but _is that wrong_?

That's such a generalization, I don't even want to answer. Seriously. Is every game centered around needlessly murdering people? NO! In fact, most aren't!</blockquote>

_ I don't think we should murder people in most cases! The great majority of games are needlessly murdering people. It's not like you're going to have that kind of a life._</blockquote>

Stop assuming. Give me evidence. Give me a few titles besides _Grand Theft Auto_, which we've already established is a bad series of games.

So I have been thinking about this for a while and I'm coming to see that my position was not fully correct.

What was your position?

All video games were wrong. But I'm coming to think that if there is nothing wrong with the game itself and the time spent playing it is done in moderation then it can be fine. My main agrument used to be "it's a waste of time" but how many things do I and others do that are juast as much a waste of time…?

Violence.

*Which, is a daily part of life. Seriously. You have brothers. How many boys wouldn't want to be a brave knight fighting dragons? Or the Marine who saves his country from terrorists? God himself used violence to take out the Israel's enemies. In fact, the Bible itself _is_ a violent book. I don't believe that violence is wrong.* *I do, however, believe that violence _for no reason or for the wrong reasons_ is wrong. A game that encourages you running around killing random people is a bad game in my book. Which is why I don't play the Grand Theft Auto series (if the title doesn't say it all!).*

_No, it's not a daily part of life. Seriously. Catch this: my brothers run around hunting deer. Catching fish. Shooting bears. (Imaginary, of course. :P) They automatically know (partially from my parents' training, I'll grant you), that they shouldn't pretend to kill people._ _And God using violence is a completely different thing than humans using violence. What about the sixth commandment? Jesus said to turn the other cheek, and to love your enemies. Aren't we theoretically under the "new covenant" that Jesus put into place?_

*And now we go back to "Should You Kill At All?". I'm sorry, but if a nation is trying to attack and destroy myself, and/or my fellow countrymen, I will fight to protect them. God commands us to love our neighbors _as ourselves_. In other words, protect others _as you would protect yourself_. If protecting yourself means blowing your enemy to kingdom come, then so be it: it's _necessary_. Unnecessary violence is wrong, but fighting to help and protect? That's something worth fighting for.*

_I most certainly agree with you that we (men at least) should fight to protect their family, country, etc. I don't think we should fight to protect ourselves, at least in many cases. But what about in video games? It's not real. It's pretend. Should you even pretend, when you really *don't want to* (or shouldn't want to), kill another fellow human being, loved by God?_

*If the game will help in instilling in you a love for your country, and encourages you to be ready to do what it takes to protect yourself and others, is it wrong?*

_Not necessarily. Real war isn't even like that. I think we should protect helpless people that *need* help. To tell you the truth, I don't really love America the way it is right now. I hate the abortion, the debauchery in public schools, the way Christians and all the rest use birth control to refuse God's blessings! I hate how Obama is trying to make us pay for people to kill their babies. I hate how homosexuals are imposing their "rights" on other people. Our freedom is being taken away right now. We aren't being called to fight with other countries to protect our country's freedom. We are being called by God to protect our Christian rights and make a difference right here, with words, not violence. I love the people under the yoke of bondage, and I want to free them. I hate the sins._

I hate everything there that you mentioned. But still, in spite of all that, we still have at least the freedom we have to praise God, and to serve Him. I know those freedoms are being stripped away, and I don't want to know what kind of a world my kids will grow up in. But, I don't believe that playing video games is adding to that. Man is sinful. There would be this amount of sin with, or without video games. Sodom and Gomorrah didn't have video games, and God destroyed them both with fire from heaven. We have them, and God has been so merciful to our nation, that words can't describe it. Despite all the darkness, there is still light here, and I agree that we should be more of a light to the world. But, I do not believe that video games are somehow the cause of this darkness.

My original statement was: Disney is full of awful stuff anyhow. Video games too. Most media, actually. I have now modified it to the more all-encompassing statement of: The majority of media in the world today (including movies, television, and video games), have an open anti-God, anti-Bible, anti-Christian worldview. *I would agree with you there, that most media out there is trash. However, you shouldn't lump the good together with the bad, just because it's media. That's how people viewed novels, when they first became popular.* _That's not what I'm trying to do. But a very hard thing for fallible human minds to do is to pick out the good from the bad when they are not making a specific distinction._ *Still depends on the media. It's not that hard.* _I disagree. You can do it sometimes, but especially with video games, you're focused on the game itself. AND, even though you are focused on the game, you're still going to hear the anti-God views and words subconsciously, and it's going to stay in your mind, once you let it in._ *What about movies? You're focused on the movie itself, and you can find anti-God views and words in those too. Should we then give up on movies?* _Not necessarily. I think we as Christians should not watch those (or most of those) movies that have anti-God views and words in them. There are plenty of Christian movies that have a good message. I think we should watch those, stay away from "secular" stuff, and *especially* stay away from movies by Hollywood and Disney and producers like that. Older movies are often better as well._ Sam told me that this was "a blatant generalization". Is it? Should we, as Christians, be wasting our time on something that is subtly undermining our worldview, our values, our morals? *That depends on the game. You're totally generalizing. And, you could say that about a lot of things. Take _The Sound of Music_. What is the oldest daughter's main struggle? Her love for her boyfriend. Do we see her talking with her father about him, or trying to find the best thing to do? No, we see her trying to assert that she's mature enough to make decisions on her own without parental advice, and trying to see him behind her father's back. Is that encouraging? Is that building up your morals?* _Generalizations are not always bad. And I do not recommend *The Sound of Music* as a very spiritually uplifting movie. It's just history, is the only really good thing in it._ *Wait. So, because the history is good, you should watch it?* _Not necessarily. That is a choice we all will have to make individually. It's not like we're going to find a perfect movie, that doesn't have any bad influences in it. What we can do, though, is *stop* the movie, as a family, when it comes to a not-so-good part, and discuss what is wrong in the scene. This way, we can turn around some of the parts that would influence us for bad, and instead use them to sharpen our discernment. Each family and each individual will have to draw the line for themselves, though. How much is too much?_ *So then, why is it just _so_ taboo for individuals or families to use video games to sharpen their own discernment? You can always _pause_ a game, y'know,* _But are there really video games that have a good message? That help you in your Christian walk? I think that the huge majority of video games are *so full* of bad messages that it is impossible to catch even close to all of them._ *That is STILL a generalization. And we can apply that to any book, movie, TV show, whatever! Which is why the discerning Christian will learn to take the good, and know what is bad, and _why_ the bad is bad, in any of those situations.* *Look. You keep saying that there is nothing good in most video games. Prove it. Give me a few examples. I'm tired of hearing generalizations and assumptions. Give me proof. I gave you that article, you give me solid evidence.* _Not any book. Not any movie. Yes, most TV shows. When there isn't too much of it, we can learn to take the good and know what is bad, but if we are constantly filling our minds with it, we will be desensitized. It is inevitable. Our human minds *will* not be able to withstand it._ _Since I don't have unlimited search access, I can't get it right away. I'll get it. BUT - how am I going to prove it to you when you think violence isn't bad?_ This is my point, Sam, to answer your question. It's not _just_ a waste of time. "Let the young Christian realize that what ever does not help his spiritual life hinders it." -*A Fourfold Salvation* by A. W. Pink (which, btw, I highly recommend) See Php. 4:8. *Hmm....so....does that mean that doing things like playing tag, or building LEGO with my friends, or doing anything that isn't directly associated with spiritual matters, is hindering my spiritual life?* _I didn't mean *directly associated*. Playing tag is good exercise. We are to take care of our bodies as the temple of the living God. Building LEGO with friends can give you a better friendship with them, and it also exercises your creative capacities that God gave you._ *And playing video games can give me a better relationship with my friends too. There are entire, God-centered, gaming communities out there, such as Saints3G, where they play games together, with a Christian and uplifting atmosphere. Is that wrong?* _Even if playing video games gives you a better relationship with your friends, what is actually *on* the video game? I think it is going to influence you more directly than sitting there next to a friend, headphones on, eyes glued to the screen, both not really paying much attention to the other person._ *Yeah....no. When I have a friend with me, playing say: Batman: Arkham Origins, we have SO much fun talking back and forth when we're playing. Strategy games are known for bringing people together in games. Why are you saying that I can't focus on my friends as I play?* *EDIT: Plus, "having headphones on", is an assumption. My friends and I don't play with headphones on, when we're together. You keep acting like playing video games turns you into a mindless zombie for the duration of your playtime. It doesn't. In fact, the U.S Department of Defense did research, and showed that gamers are 20% smarter than non-gamers. I will post the link to that article.* http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=57695 _Okay. You say that you can improve your relationship with your friends while playing video games together. I very much enjoy playing board games and card games with my family and friends. I can understand that. *That doesn't change what is actually on the game you're playing.* If it makes you smarter, and slows you down in your walk with God, it's not worth it._ *And still, you are assuming that playing a video game will darken your soul, and take you to Hell, basically. Why won't playing Monopoly do the same? You're pretending to be a rich business tycoon who's sole purpose is to amass as much money as possible while charging other people as much as possible to make them as poor as possible. So then, should we not play Monopoly?* _When I play Monopoly, I'm not pretending to be a rich business tycoon. I'm trying to win the game. It's not the same with video games. It's 3D. It's realistic. It *tries* to make you feel like whatever character you're impersonating._ _And no, I am not assuming that playing a video game will darken your soul and take you to Hell. I think it is an almost complete waste of time, and is going to desensitize you to evil._ The average child spends over 1000 hours a year watching TV/movies/playing video games. Even if this was something that was good to spend our time on, this is overload. *Where did you get that info? I must not be an average kid, then. I haven't gotten to play a game besides Pokemon for a while, as I've been really busy with school, and even then, I'm not sure if I do that for more than an hour. Even then, Until I know where you got that statistic, I'm going to be a bit skeptical.* _Search for it on the Internet. I might be wrong, since I don't have unlimited access to check that info._ *Checked it out, and I'd say that he was right there, according to stats I've read. But then, those stats I looked up were really taking all forms of media on screens together, TV, Internet, and such included. Even so, just because someone does it that much doesn't mean everyone does.* _What it does show is that there is a problem. All of you would probably agree with me if I said "1000 hours a year spent on media is way too much", but I think that a lot less than that is also too much. A lot less._ *Still, stats like this are often broad. I mean, how can you, _accurately_, determine such a number? You really can't ask everyone in the nation the same question, and so it's an estimate. A close estimate, but an estimate nonetheless. And, I'd still say that _it's up to the individual/family_. If you want to spend your time that way, go ahead.* _It is up to the individual/family. I think that such a statistic is worthy of trust. It's an average, not of everyone in the nation, but of a large sample of those people._ Sam, you also made this statement: "So, you're just going to believe everything _Carl Kerby at the Film Festival_ shows you and tells you?" *Abigail's statement, not mine.* _I fixed that._ *I appreciate it.* 1. Yes, I will believe him. I don't think he's a liar. :P *Could be misinformed. We all can be. Myself included.* 2. No, not everything. I have my own view, and he has his. *And I have mine. :)* _Fine with me! :)_ 3. He didn't just show me and tell me. He was speaking to an audience of hundreds. So! I hope to learn and benefit from this discussion as well. :) Discuss!

<blockand

_I did say there was exceptions. I'm sure that both you and Sam have games like that that don't have much or any violence. But we're not looking at those here. The truth remains that *the great majority* of video games out there have violence. Unnecessary violence. UnBiblical violence._

Name one. One with ungodly violence. Unbiblical violence. Violence that is unnecessary.

The Slaying of Isaac. Mind you, I do not have personal experience with most video games out there. I am thankful to my parents for protecting me from most worldly media. Yet I have seen enough to know that they are violent. Noah, you call running around trying to escape from zombies, or chasing whoever, the bad guy, shooting at people at every turn, all in a game, necessary?

*Is that even a _game_? Where'd you find this?* *You admit you have little experience. Which means that most of your points are going to be assumptions. I will agree that there are a lot of games that have elements of fighting, but _is that wrong_?* *That's such a generalization, I don't even want to answer. Seriously. Is every game centered around needlessly murdering people? NO! In fact, most aren't!*

_ I don't think we should murder people in most cases! The great majority of games are needlessly murdering people. It's not like you're going to have that kind of a life._</blockquote>

Stop assuming. Give me evidence. Give me a few titles besides _Grand Theft Auto_, which we've already established is a bad series of games.
</blockquote>

I will. Soon. I have to leave in five minutes, but I'll have it soon.

So I have been thinking about this for a while and I'm coming to see that my position was not fully correct.

What was your position?

All video games were wrong. But I'm coming to think that if there is nothing wrong with the game itself and the time spent playing it is done in moderation then it can be fine. My main agrument used to be "it's a waste of time" but how many things do I and others do that are juast as much a waste of time...?

That's not my main point, though it is a waste of time. It is going to desensitize us to evil.

Violence.

*Which, is a daily part of life. Seriously. You have brothers. How many boys wouldn't want to be a brave knight fighting dragons? Or the Marine who saves his country from terrorists? God himself used violence to take out the Israel's enemies. In fact, the Bible itself _is_ a violent book. I don't believe that violence is wrong.* *I do, however, believe that violence _for no reason or for the wrong reasons_ is wrong. A game that encourages you running around killing random people is a bad game in my book. Which is why I don't play the Grand Theft Auto series (if the title doesn't say it all!).*

_No, it's not a daily part of life. Seriously. Catch this: my brothers run around hunting deer. Catching fish. Shooting bears. (Imaginary, of course. :P) They automatically know (partially from my parents' training, I'll grant you), that they shouldn't pretend to kill people._ _And God using violence is a completely different thing than humans using violence. What about the sixth commandment? Jesus said to turn the other cheek, and to love your enemies. Aren't we theoretically under the "new covenant" that Jesus put into place?_

*And now we go back to "Should You Kill At All?". I'm sorry, but if a nation is trying to attack and destroy myself, and/or my fellow countrymen, I will fight to protect them. God commands us to love our neighbors _as ourselves_. In other words, protect others _as you would protect yourself_. If protecting yourself means blowing your enemy to kingdom come, then so be it: it's _necessary_. Unnecessary violence is wrong, but fighting to help and protect? That's something worth fighting for.*

_I most certainly agree with you that we (men at least) should fight to protect their family, country, etc. I don't think we should fight to protect ourselves, at least in many cases. But what about in video games? It's not real. It's pretend. Should you even pretend, when you really *don't want to* (or shouldn't want to), kill another fellow human being, loved by God?_

*If the game will help in instilling in you a love for your country, and encourages you to be ready to do what it takes to protect yourself and others, is it wrong?*

_Not necessarily. Real war isn't even like that. I think we should protect helpless people that *need* help. To tell you the truth, I don't really love America the way it is right now. I hate the abortion, the debauchery in public schools, the way Christians and all the rest use birth control to refuse God's blessings! I hate how Obama is trying to make us pay for people to kill their babies. I hate how homosexuals are imposing their "rights" on other people. Our freedom is being taken away right now. We aren't being called to fight with other countries to protect our country's freedom. We are being called by God to protect our Christian rights and make a difference right here, with words, not violence. I love the people under the yoke of bondage, and I want to free them. I hate the sins._

*I hate everything there that you mentioned. But still, in spite of all that, we still have at least the freedom we have to praise God, and to serve Him. I know those freedoms are being stripped away, and I don't want to know what kind of a world my kids will grow up in. But, I don't believe that playing video games is adding to that. Man is sinful. There would be this amount of sin with, or without video games. Sodom and Gomorrah didn't have video games, and God destroyed them both with fire from heaven. We have them, and God has been so merciful to our nation, that words can't describe it. Despite all the darkness, there is still light here, and I agree that we should be more of a light to the world. But, I do not believe that video games are somehow the cause of this darkness.*

I think they are adding to it. They are desensitizing kids to evil. How much time do you think kids in even Christian families are going to spend learning about God so they will eventually be a light to the world, when they have all these video games that they want to play? It is destroying a generation of kids. We are being taken captive to the media. Adults are captives too. We and they are not being lights to the world because (at least partially), we are spending so much time in the media!

I have to go. I'll be back sometime tomorrow. Cheerio!

So I have been thinking about this for a while and I'm coming to see that my position was not fully correct.

What was your position?

All video games were wrong. But I'm coming to think that if there is nothing wrong with the game itself and the time spent playing it is done in moderation then it can be fine. My main agrument used to be "it's a waste of time" but how many things do I and others do that are juast as much a waste of time...?

That's not my main point, though it is a waste of time. It is going to desensitize us to evil.

Not necessarily. Anyways one could say the same thing about games, fiction books, and such things. What makes video games worse then all that other stuff?

My original statement was: Disney is full of awful stuff anyhow. Video games too. Most media, actually. I have now modified it to the more all-encompassing statement of: The majority of media in the world today (including movies, television, and video games), have an open anti-God, anti-Bible, anti-Christian worldview. *I would agree with you there, that most media out there is trash. However, you shouldn't lump the good together with the bad, just because it's media. That's how people viewed novels, when they first became popular.* _That's not what I'm trying to do. But a very hard thing for fallible human minds to do is to pick out the good from the bad when they are not making a specific distinction._ *Still depends on the media. It's not that hard.* _I disagree. You can do it sometimes, but especially with video games, you're focused on the game itself. AND, even though you are focused on the game, you're still going to hear the anti-God views and words subconsciously, and it's going to stay in your mind, once you let it in._ *What about movies? You're focused on the movie itself, and you can find anti-God views and words in those too. Should we then give up on movies?* _Not necessarily. I think we as Christians should not watch those (or most of those) movies that have anti-God views and words in them. There are plenty of Christian movies that have a good message. I think we should watch those, stay away from "secular" stuff, and *especially* stay away from movies by Hollywood and Disney and producers like that. Older movies are often better as well._ Sam told me that this was "a blatant generalization". Is it? Should we, as Christians, be wasting our time on something that is subtly undermining our worldview, our values, our morals? *That depends on the game. You're totally generalizing. And, you could say that about a lot of things. Take _The Sound of Music_. What is the oldest daughter's main struggle? Her love for her boyfriend. Do we see her talking with her father about him, or trying to find the best thing to do? No, we see her trying to assert that she's mature enough to make decisions on her own without parental advice, and trying to see him behind her father's back. Is that encouraging? Is that building up your morals?* _Generalizations are not always bad. And I do not recommend *The Sound of Music* as a very spiritually uplifting movie. It's just history, is the only really good thing in it._ *Wait. So, because the history is good, you should watch it?* _Not necessarily. That is a choice we all will have to make individually. It's not like we're going to find a perfect movie, that doesn't have any bad influences in it. What we can do, though, is *stop* the movie, as a family, when it comes to a not-so-good part, and discuss what is wrong in the scene. This way, we can turn around some of the parts that would influence us for bad, and instead use them to sharpen our discernment. Each family and each individual will have to draw the line for themselves, though. How much is too much?_ *So then, why is it just _so_ taboo for individuals or families to use video games to sharpen their own discernment? You can always _pause_ a game, y'know,* _But are there really video games that have a good message? That help you in your Christian walk? I think that the huge majority of video games are *so full* of bad messages that it is impossible to catch even close to all of them._ *That is STILL a generalization. And we can apply that to any book, movie, TV show, whatever! Which is why the discerning Christian will learn to take the good, and know what is bad, and _why_ the bad is bad, in any of those situations.* *Look. You keep saying that there is nothing good in most video games. Prove it. Give me a few examples. I'm tired of hearing generalizations and assumptions. Give me proof. I gave you that article, you give me solid evidence.* _Not any book. Not any movie. Yes, most TV shows. When there isn't too much of it, we can learn to take the good and know what is bad, but if we are constantly filling our minds with it, we will be desensitized. It is inevitable. Our human minds *will* not be able to withstand it._ *So then, why is it so different if I'm reading lots of books, than if I'm playing lots of games? Both put you into the head of a character, both let you see how the character thinks and acts, and both show you the consequences of those actions. How is what's in a book somehow "less", than what's in a game?* _Since I don't have unlimited search access, I can't get it right away. I'll get it. BUT - how am I going to prove it to you when you think violence isn't bad?_ *How am I going to prove to you that video games aren't sending America to Hell if you think they are?* This is my point, Sam, to answer your question. It's not _just_ a waste of time. "Let the young Christian realize that what ever does not help his spiritual life hinders it." -*A Fourfold Salvation* by A. W. Pink (which, btw, I highly recommend) See Php. 4:8. *Hmm....so....does that mean that doing things like playing tag, or building LEGO with my friends, or doing anything that isn't directly associated with spiritual matters, is hindering my spiritual life?* _I didn't mean *directly associated*. Playing tag is good exercise. We are to take care of our bodies as the temple of the living God. Building LEGO with friends can give you a better friendship with them, and it also exercises your creative capacities that God gave you._ *And playing video games can give me a better relationship with my friends too. There are entire, God-centered, gaming communities out there, such as Saints3G, where they play games together, with a Christian and uplifting atmosphere. Is that wrong?* _Even if playing video games gives you a better relationship with your friends, what is actually *on* the video game? I think it is going to influence you more directly than sitting there next to a friend, headphones on, eyes glued to the screen, both not really paying much attention to the other person._ *Yeah....no. When I have a friend with me, playing say: Batman: Arkham Origins, we have SO much fun talking back and forth when we're playing. Strategy games are known for bringing people together in games. Why are you saying that I can't focus on my friends as I play?* *EDIT: Plus, "having headphones on", is an assumption. My friends and I don't play with headphones on, when we're together. You keep acting like playing video games turns you into a mindless zombie for the duration of your playtime. It doesn't. In fact, the U.S Department of Defense did research, and showed that gamers are 20% smarter than non-gamers. I will post the link to that article.* http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=57695 _Okay. You say that you can improve your relationship with your friends while playing video games together. I very much enjoy playing board games and card games with my family and friends. I can understand that. *That doesn't change what is actually on the game you're playing.* If it makes you smarter, and slows you down in your walk with God, it's not worth it._ *And still, you are assuming that playing a video game will darken your soul, and take you to Hell, basically. Why won't playing Monopoly do the same? You're pretending to be a rich business tycoon who's sole purpose is to amass as much money as possible while charging other people as much as possible to make them as poor as possible. So then, should we not play Monopoly?* _When I play Monopoly, I'm not pretending to be a rich business tycoon. I'm trying to win the game. It's not the same with video games. It's 3D. It's realistic. It *tries* to make you feel like whatever character you're impersonating._ *And so, when I'm playing with my friends, I don't try to feel like who I'm impersonating? So, it's better to play a board game where you are a slave trader, but not to play a video game where you're a slave trader?* _And no, I am not assuming that playing a video game will darken your soul and take you to Hell. I think it is an almost complete waste of time, and is going to desensitize you to evil._ *Which can be a applied to a lot of books, movies, and TV shows.* The average child spends over 1000 hours a year watching TV/movies/playing video games. Even if this was something that was good to spend our time on, this is overload. *Where did you get that info? I must not be an average kid, then. I haven't gotten to play a game besides Pokemon for a while, as I've been really busy with school, and even then, I'm not sure if I do that for more than an hour. Even then, Until I know where you got that statistic, I'm going to be a bit skeptical.* _Search for it on the Internet. I might be wrong, since I don't have unlimited access to check that info._ *Checked it out, and I'd say that he was right there, according to stats I've read. But then, those stats I looked up were really taking all forms of media on screens together, TV, Internet, and such included. Even so, just because someone does it that much doesn't mean everyone does.* _What it does show is that there is a problem. All of you would probably agree with me if I said "1000 hours a year spent on media is way too much", but I think that a lot less than that is also too much. A lot less._ *Still, stats like this are often broad. I mean, how can you, _accurately_, determine such a number? You really can't ask everyone in the nation the same question, and so it's an estimate. A close estimate, but an estimate nonetheless. And, I'd still say that _it's up to the individual/family_. If you want to spend your time that way, go ahead.* _It is up to the individual/family. I think that such a statistic is worthy of trust. It's an average, not of everyone in the nation, but of a large sample of those people._ Sam, you also made this statement: "So, you're just going to believe everything _Carl Kerby at the Film Festival_ shows you and tells you?" *Abigail's statement, not mine.* _I fixed that._ *I appreciate it.* 1. Yes, I will believe him. I don't think he's a liar. :P *Could be misinformed. We all can be. Myself included.* 2. No, not everything. I have my own view, and he has his. *And I have mine. :)* _Fine with me! :)_ 3. He didn't just show me and tell me. He was speaking to an audience of hundreds. So! I hope to learn and benefit from this discussion as well. :) Discuss!

Violence.

*Which, is a daily part of life. Seriously. You have brothers. How many boys wouldn't want to be a brave knight fighting dragons? Or the Marine who saves his country from terrorists? God himself used violence to take out the Israel's enemies. In fact, the Bible itself _is_ a violent book. I don't believe that violence is wrong.* *I do, however, believe that violence _for no reason or for the wrong reasons_ is wrong. A game that encourages you running around killing random people is a bad game in my book. Which is why I don't play the Grand Theft Auto series (if the title doesn't say it all!).*

_No, it's not a daily part of life. Seriously. Catch this: my brothers run around hunting deer. Catching fish. Shooting bears. (Imaginary, of course. :P) They automatically know (partially from my parents' training, I'll grant you), that they shouldn't pretend to kill people._ _And God using violence is a completely different thing than humans using violence. What about the sixth commandment? Jesus said to turn the other cheek, and to love your enemies. Aren't we theoretically under the "new covenant" that Jesus put into place?_

*And now we go back to "Should You Kill At All?". I'm sorry, but if a nation is trying to attack and destroy myself, and/or my fellow countrymen, I will fight to protect them. God commands us to love our neighbors _as ourselves_. In other words, protect others _as you would protect yourself_. If protecting yourself means blowing your enemy to kingdom come, then so be it: it's _necessary_. Unnecessary violence is wrong, but fighting to help and protect? That's something worth fighting for.*

_I most certainly agree with you that we (men at least) should fight to protect their family, country, etc. I don't think we should fight to protect ourselves, at least in many cases. But what about in video games? It's not real. It's pretend. Should you even pretend, when you really *don't want to* (or shouldn't want to), kill another fellow human being, loved by God?_

*If the game will help in instilling in you a love for your country, and encourages you to be ready to do what it takes to protect yourself and others, is it wrong?*

_Not necessarily. Real war isn't even like that. I think we should protect helpless people that *need* help. To tell you the truth, I don't really love America the way it is right now. I hate the abortion, the debauchery in public schools, the way Christians and all the rest use birth control to refuse God's blessings! I hate how Obama is trying to make us pay for people to kill their babies. I hate how homosexuals are imposing their "rights" on other people. Our freedom is being taken away right now. We aren't being called to fight with other countries to protect our country's freedom. We are being called by God to protect our Christian rights and make a difference right here, with words, not violence. I love the people under the yoke of bondage, and I want to free them. I hate the sins._

*I hate everything there that you mentioned. But still, in spite of all that, we still have at least the freedom we have to praise God, and to serve Him. I know those freedoms are being stripped away, and I don't want to know what kind of a world my kids will grow up in. But, I don't believe that playing video games is adding to that. Man is sinful. There would be this amount of sin with, or without video games. Sodom and Gomorrah didn't have video games, and God destroyed them both with fire from heaven. We have them, and God has been so merciful to our nation, that words can't describe it. Despite all the darkness, there is still light here, and I agree that we should be more of a light to the world. But, I do not believe that video games are somehow the cause of this darkness.*

_I think they are adding to it. They are desensitizing kids to evil. How much time do you think kids in even Christian families are going to spend learning about God so they will eventually be a light to the world, when they have all these video games that they want to play? It is destroying a generation of kids. We are being taken captive to the media. Adults are captives too. We and they are not being lights to the world because (at least partially), we are spending so much time in the media!_

1. You're assuming that as soon as you get your hands on a video game, it consumes your thoughts until you can do nothing else unless you're playing it. That is a falsehood.

2. ANYTHING can consume your thoughts and become an obsession! You can become a captive to anything! I don't understand why you seem to think that video games are some kind of black hole that sucks your soul.

I agree with Sam here.

<blockand

_I did say there was exceptions. I'm sure that both you and Sam have games like that that don't have much or any violence. But we're not looking at those here. The truth remains that *the great majority* of video games out there have violence. Unnecessary violence. UnBiblical violence._

Name one. One with ungodly violence. Unbiblical violence. Violence that is unnecessary.</blockquote>

The Slaying of Isaac.

Mind you, I do not have personal experience with most video games out there. I am thankful to my parents for protecting me from most worldly media. Yet I have seen enough to know that they are violent.

Noah, you call running around trying to escape from zombies, or chasing whoever, the bad guy, shooting at people at every turn, all in a game, necessary?</blockquote>

Is running around peroid , necessary?

I don't think we should murder people in most cases! The great majority of games *are* needlessly murdering people. It's not like you're going to have that kind of a life.</blockquote>

Is that so?! I never knew that! She's never even played a video game, yet she knows it!

_I don't think we should murder people in most cases! The great majority of games *are* needlessly murdering people. It's not like you're going to have that kind of a life._

Is that so?! I never knew that! She's never even played a video game, yet she knows it!</blockquote>

She might've played Solitaire on the computer…is that violent?

_I don't think we should murder people in most cases! The great majority of games *are* needlessly murdering people. It's not like you're going to have that kind of a life._

Is that so?! I never knew that! She's never even played a video game, yet she knows it!

She might've played Solitaire on the computer…is that violent? </blockquote>

It's rated A-O….

If you believe video games cause violence, pray, tell me what violent video games they played before 1990…?!