Speeding

Is it okay to speed under any circumstances? If you're carrying a dying person to the emergency room? If you're going to be late for church otherwise? If you're in a hurry to get groceries for company?

The Bible says that we should be subject to the governing authorities, therefore we must be generally submissive to them. But It does not say "obey the governing authorities in all things." Speeding definitely can be wrong and is wrong if we do not have a good reason.

What's an example of a good reason? If speeding is necessary in order to do something important. So no speeding for fun or just because you feel like it, but if not speeding will hinder you from doing something quickly that needs to be done quickly, then you have the right to handle what you own according to your discretion for that purpose.

-Discuss!- Debate!

Is this a theological discussion?

Just as much as dating vs. courtship is.

In your three examples…

1. Call an ambulance
2. No…leave earlier
3. No…do it ahead of time

I say that one should not speed. It is a law and we need to obey our rulers.

And I would add to what Carissa said (with which I agree): If you are in a situation which necessitates speeding in order to complete on time whatever you need done… too bad. Unless it is truly an emergency, I honestly think it is directly disobedient to Scripture to violate such a clear law of government.

And I would add to what Carissa said (with which I agree): If you are in a situation which necessitates speeding in order to complete on time whatever you need done... too bad. Unless it is truly an emergency, I honestly think it is directly disobedient to Scripture to violate such a clear law of government.

Agreed!

You know what I think on the whole topic, Nathan. I think I made myself pretty clear on Saturday, when we all debated on the Alexander's front porch. If you aren't sure, well then… I guess I could explain - ALWAYS OBEY THE SPEED LIMIT. ALWAYS.

So there should never be an exception? Under any circumstances?

Unless it would be cruel not to do so (such as in an emergency in which someone is in severe pain, and you need to get them to a hospital as soon as possible), I cannot think of any circumstance in which speeding is not wrong.

In that circumstance you call an ambulance.

In that circumstance you call an ambulance.

True, but there are a few situations I can think of in which that is impossible. So really, it's extremely rare to find a good excuse for speeding.

Like? In any case the injured person would get help faster if the ambulance was called…

Not necessarily… what if you live way out in the middle of no where and you're really hard to find. I don't think this would happen very often, but it could happen.

Like? In any case the injured person would get help faster if the ambulance was called...

Let's say it's in a pretty remote place in which the nearest ambulance is as far away as the hospital. You could still call, but you'd want to get to the hospital as fast as you can while you're waiting, and I think I would condone speeding in that instance. I'm sure that there are also other circumstances I can't think of right now that would call for speeding as well; but obviously, they're so rare that none of us will probably ever get into such a situation anyway.

Okay, yeah.

Yeah, if someone's going to die if you don't speed, then it's murder not to speed.

There you go.

Yeah, if someone's going to die if you don't speed, then it's murder not to speed. There you go.

Agreed. But what if you're going to endanger someone else's life by speeding to save someone's life?

Yeah, if someone's going to die if you don't speed, then it's murder not to speed. There you go.

So do you now agree that that is one of the only situations in which it would be okay? Or do you still allow a broader range of possibilities?

Word to the wise: when my wife's pregnant GET OFF THE ROAD.

If you're in a situation such as: you need to get to church on time, etc., I think it depends on conscience. Carissa mentioned that you should leave earlier. Well, you can't always control that. What if you were just about to leave–in good time–when your infant had a blow-out poopy diaper? That could make you late!! And if you're the pastor, do you hold up the congregation? That would be inconsiderate.

Welcome to Memverse: where we discuss poopy diapers as theology.

Oooooh, I just thought of something. What if your wife is in labor and you need to get to the hospital? As far as I know, you can't call an ambulance for that. If I'm wrong about that, let me know.

If you're in a situation such as: you need to get to church on time, etc., I think it depends on conscience. Carissa mentioned that you should leave earlier. Well, you can't always control that. What if you were just about to leave--in good time--when your infant had a blow-out poopy diaper? That could make you late!! And if you're the pastor, do you hold up the congregation? That would be inconsiderate.

Sorry, but I think it's better to be inconsiderate than to break laws established by God-given leaders. I honestly can't see this as a matter of conscience; breaking the law is breaking the law, and is directly forbidden in Scripture.

The Bible doesn't really command us to obey the government like it commands us to obey our parents. There's a difference. What about the stupid seat-belt laws? The government has no business telling a father how to run his family.

If you're in a situation such as: you need to get to church on time, etc., I think it depends on conscience. Carissa mentioned that you should leave earlier. Well, you can't always control that. What if you were just about to leave--in good time--when your infant had a blow-out poopy diaper? That could make you late!! And if you're the pastor, do you hold up the congregation? That would be inconsiderate.

Just to get this straight…you think it would be okay to break the law so as not to be inconsiderate?

The Bible doesn't really command us to obey the government like it commands us to obey our parents. There's a difference. What about the stupid seat-belt laws? The government has no business telling a father how to run his family.

Uh… yeah, it does. Romans 13:1-2–"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."

That's pretty comprehensive. Unless a law is telling us to disobey God, we must obey it. It doesn't matter if the seatbelt laws are stupid; they're put in place by the God-given government.

In a case like that–if your conscience permitted it–yes; the government has no right to tell you to hold up other people for Sabbath worship by not going fast enough with the car that you own.

But God has given fathers the authority to run their own families. I don't think we can deduce, from the passage you just posted, that the government is allowed to interfere with that–unless, of course, abuse is happening, or something like that.

And 1 Peter 2:13-17…
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, 14 or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. 16 Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. 17 Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

But God has given fathers the authority to run their own families. I don't think we can deduce, from the passage you just posted, that the government is allowed to interfere with that--unless, of course, abuse is happening, or something like that.

God gave fathers the authority to run their families in the context of governmental laws. If we only obey the government when we feel like obeying it, there's no point in government anyway.

In a case like that--if your conscience permitted it--yes; the government has no right to tell you to hold up other people for Sabbath worship by not going fast enough with the car that you own.

Yes, it entirely does have that right. If it doesn't, what rights does it have??

The right to keep you from being reckless. I'm not saying speed limits can be disobeyed anytime we feel like disobeying them–only when the situation calls for it.

In your three examples... 1. Call an ambulance 2. No...leave earlier 3. No...do it ahead of time I say that one should not speed. It is a law and we need to obey our rulers.

1. Tell that to many Alaskan towns. :P Enjoy waiting 3 hours for it. Dead… but legal… jk

The right to keep you from being reckless. I'm not saying speed limits can be disobeyed anytime we feel like disobeying them--only when the situation calls for it.

But you basically just said the same thing twice. If we don't have government to set down exact laws, everyone is entitled to do what they feel like doing. You cannot just trust the discretion of mankind like that. If we break a speed limit law because it is convenient to do so, we are setting a very bad precedent for other areas of law-obeying.

We're not supposed to obey the governing authorities to the point of "not being reckless", we're to obey them until they say to do something God forbids or not do something God commands.

I could say that it's wrong to hold up the congregation from public worship when you have the ability of getting there on time. So in that case, the laws are preventing you from doing right.

This seems pretty silly to me. Why would you say it would be…ahem…wrong to hold up a congregation from public worship? It's inconsiderate, but I'm not sure about wrong. And you may have the ability of getting there on time, but not the legal ability.

Besides, like Carissa said, leave earlier. And I think if a pastor isn't leaving early enough to make it before the service starts, he might want to reconsider his leaving time. My pastor's family sets a great example - they're there an hour before it starts (or so). I don't remember a single time they were ever late.

Did you even read what I said about emergencies? You can leave as early as you want, but things could still come up. Your car might stall, there might be a traffic jam, or… well, the example I already gave.

I'm saying I could argue that it would be wrong to hold up a congregation when you have the ability to get there on time. And if the only thing holding you up is a speed limit, you do have that ability. The government has no business holding you up.

And remember folks: Christians only obey government when it's convenient. Otherwise, screw that! We've got holy business to do!

I didn't say we could disobey the government when it's convenient, but when it's necessary.

I did. I don't think that any of those reasons are valid to disobey the posted speed limit.

The government does have business posting speed limits. BECAUSE, people's lives are in danger if they're not obeyed. If we don't agree with the government, fine. But we still have a responsibility to obey it, because they are not telling us to do anything wrong.

I think it's worse to speed than to be late.

It just depends on how you define necessary. If everybody sped when they thought they needed too, well, ahem, you'd have…pretty much what we have today. And the roads are dangerous nowadays!

It just depends on how you define necessary. If everybody sped when they thought they _needed_ too, well, ahem, you'd have...pretty much what we have today. And the roads are dangerous nowadays!

Well, you have a good point there…

In a case like that--if your conscience permitted it--yes; the government has no right to tell you to hold up other people for Sabbath worship by not going fast enough with the car that you own.

If you'd go that far, then where would it stop? Would you run stop signs and red lights? Pass on double yellow? Cut people off to get to you off-ramp? And how to you justify your position with the passage Nicolas posted earlier? (Romans 13:1-2 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.)

I'd say the standard is that if you're putting people in likely danger, you shouldn't do it. Going 40 on a 30 highway where there're no cars doesn't put anyone in danger.

I still don't know why we're talking about this. It's easy. Obey the speed limit unless you have a legitimate emergency, even then, use discretion.

That's all I'm trying to say!!!

Welcome to Memverse: where we discuss poopy diapers as _theology_.

That made me laugh SO hard…

Is it really possible to always got the exact speed of the speed limit? What if your going 1mph faster then what it's supposed to be. Is that considered speeding?

Actually you can go 5 mph over the speed limit, and it wouldn't be considered speeding. I don't think a cop would pull you over though if you were going 6 mph over the speed limit though. :P