Speeding

I really like that you had the Bible to back you up. That's the way to debate!

ME?!?! Go faster than the speed limit?! Why would I ever do that?! Coughs m.. I think I did that today! :P

Speeding you say…. Well we as americans go faster than the posted limit constantly…. It's called driving at a safe speed in traffic.

+Matthew 12:3-4+
He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, and those who were with him: how he entered the house of God and ate the bread of the Presence, which it was not lawful for him to eat nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?

This is depressing. I hope I'm never in a car with any of you.

Well now its my goal in life to kidnap you and drive you somwheres. :P

And deliver him unto me, that I may commence my favorite torture sequence.

In that circumstance you call an ambulance.

No, you do not. It takes twice the time for the ambulance to drive here and back as it would for you to drive straight there.

Word to the wise: when my wife's pregnant *GET OFF THE ROAD.*

When your wife is pregnant, I will be unlaced by shoctification!

Do you even have a wife?

Or just a buffalo gal?

Though I do not despise buffalo gals in any way!

Word to the wise: when my wife's pregnant *GET OFF THE ROAD.*

When your wife is pregnant, I will be unlaced by shoctification! Do you even have a wife? Or just a buffalo gal? Though I do not despise buffalo gals in any way!

Just a Buffalo Gal. 'Cept, I don't think she sees herself that way. Which is a good thing.

In that circumstance you call an ambulance.

No, you do not. It takes twice the time for the ambulance to drive here and back as it would for you to drive straight there.

Amen, Noah.

You are all saying you can't speed in good conscience to avoid letting someone die when you have the power to save them.

Now, what if I can't let someone die in good conscience to avoid speeding?

Dead end for both of us.

Word to the wise: when my wife's pregnant *GET OFF THE ROAD.*

When your wife is pregnant, I will be unlaced by shoctification! Do you even have a wife? Or just a buffalo gal? Though I do not despise buffalo gals in any way!

Just a Buffalo Gal. 'Cept, I don't think she sees herself that way. Which is a good thing.

I would say "too bad" but thou art a full-grown Deadpool, and knoweth what thou doeth, therefore I question not thy last sentence.

This is depressing. I hope I'm never in a car with any of you.

Well now its my goal in life to kidnap you and drive you somwheres. :P

And deliver him unto me, that I may commence my favorite torture sequence.

@OCTSRIS

I don't see you 'amen' ing this! :D

Hi! I just looked up the definition of manslaughter. There is involuntary and voluntary manslaughter. Involuntary is when you accidentally kill someone, such as in a car crash. Voluntary is when you meant to harm someone, but not kill them, such as in a fight when you hit harder than you meant. Hope that helps!

That does help, thank you Aidan!

My dad told me that if you were speeding to save someone's life and got pulled over, and you explained it, you would be allowed to. Resolved. (And even if that wasn't the case, I won't sin to avoid speeding.)

And since the only thing I had against speeding was that the government prohibits it, this resolves the issue for me.

Hi! I just looked up the definition of manslaughter. There is involuntary and voluntary manslaughter. Involuntary is when you accidentally kill someone, such as in a car crash. Voluntary is when you meant to harm someone, but not kill them, such as in a fight when you hit harder than you meant. Hope that helps!

That does help, thank you Aidan!

You're welcome!

If the government tells me not to speed under any circumstances, and I have to speed to save a life, then the government is–indirectly–telling me to sin. Therefore I have the obligation to obey God instead.

+Luke 14:5+
And answered them, saying, "Which of you shall have a donkey or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?"

+Exodus 1:19-20+
And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them. Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.

If the government tells me not to speed under any circumstances, and I have to speed to save a life, then the government is--indirectly--telling me to sin. Therefore I have the obligation to obey God instead. +Luke 14:5+ And answered them, saying, "Which of you shall have a donkey or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?" +Exodus 1:19-20+ And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them. Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.

I completely agree with you!

C-:

If the government tells me not to speed under any circumstances, and I have to speed to save a life, then the government is--indirectly--telling me to sin. Therefore I have the obligation to obey God instead. +Luke 14:5+ And answered them, saying, "Which of you shall have a donkey or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?" +Exodus 1:19-20+ And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them. Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.

I _disagree_ with you!

I don't so much care that you disagree with me as I care why you disagree with me. :-P So you really think that if the government's law requires me to sin, I should still obey it?

Mind you I'm not saying the government is intentionally commanding me to sin. Buuuut, that's the way it would work.

Hold that thought for a while, because I brought this up to Dad earlier today in the car, and he had some really good points - but I can't remember them well enough to mention them at the moment.

@OCTSRIS I don't see you 'amen' ing this! :D

Nope. I don't "amen" inappropriate jesting.

Facedesk, facedesk, facedesk They are not requiring you to sin! ^I'll have to explain later!^

@OCTSRIS I don't see you 'amen' ing this! :D

Nope. I don't "amen" inappropriate jesting.

Its not inappropriate! You just don't like it because you can already feel the pain!

If I am fully capable of saving their life–safely, and the speed limit forbids it, then it indirectly necessitates murder!

If a military officer in training has been commanded by the government to shoot at a certain target at a certain time, and when that time comes, a lost person is standing of the target, is the officer in training required to shoot the person?

Its not inappropriate! You just don't like it because you can already feel the pain!

No, it would be inappropriate no matter who you were talking about.

Its not inappropriate! You just don't like it because you can already feel the pain!

No, it would be inappropriate no matter who you were talking about.

All this from a guy who thinks its okay to eat people.

!

;)

Dude! I think that if you're starving to death and the only way to stay alive is to eat someone who's already dead, you can't prove from Scripture that it would be wrong!

Dude! I think that if you're starving to death and the only way to stay alive is to eat someone who's already dead, you can't prove from Scripture that it would be wrong!

All I can say is, you're gonna have a hard time finding a girl!

And, you don't need scripture to know that's wrong!

And in other news, we discuss letting people die by driving them to the hospital too slow, so that we can in turn feast upon their flesh.

Beautiful.

We're homeschoolers, people. :P

O_O Scripture is the only way to know if something is wrong!

Sam, sometimes you just…

O_O Scripture is the only way to know if something is wrong!

Ever heard of general revelation? We call that God revealing Himself to everyone through creation. We also call that having a conscience.

O_O Scripture is the only way to know if something is wrong!

Ever heard of _general revelation_? We call that God revealing Himself to everyone through creation. We also call that *having a conscience*.

In that case, it would only be wrong if your conscience tells you it's wrong.

O_O Scripture is the only way to know if something is wrong!

Ever heard of _general revelation_? We call that God revealing Himself to everyone through creation. We also call that *having a conscience*.

In that case, it would only be wrong if your conscience tells you it's wrong.

blinks

So…if we were both starving in an Arctic wilderness…and I died…and you didn't feel bad…you'd eat me to survive?

I would consider it suicide not to do so. I mean d'you think it would harm you, or something?

And, Sam, if I was the one who died, I would want you to eat me to survive.

I would consider it suicide not to do so.

I hope I stick in your throat. :P

I would consider it suicide not to do so. I mean d'you think it would harm you, or something? And, Sam, if I was the one who died, I would want you to eat me to survive.

Don't worry, I'd die first. :P

Considering that you're such a close friend, I would be very hard for me to do. And (especially if you think it's wrong) I would only do it if I was literally at the point of death and I knew 100% that it was the only way for me to survive. Otherwise, I honestly think it would be suicide for me.

Ohhhh… I just thought of something else! If it was the Arctic wilderness, I would not prepare to eat you if you were frozen–because when a person is frozen, you can't tell if he's dead or not; so there would be a risk of me actually being the one to end your life.

Considering that you're such a close friend, I would be very hard for me to do. And (especially if you think it's wrong) I would only do it if I was literally at the point of death and I knew 100% that it was the only way for me to survive. Otherwise, I honestly think it would be suicide for me. Ohhhh... I just thought of something else! If it was the Arctic wilderness, I would not prepare to eat you if you were frozen--because when a person is frozen, you can't tell if he's dead or not; so there would be a risk of me actually being the one to end your life.

That's so comforting, Nathan. :P

@Rosie~ Just to make sure you don't get lost in our rabbit trail above, I'm going to repost my latest response to you. It is as follows.

If I am fully capable of saving their life—safely, and the speed limit forbids it, then it indirectly necessitates murder!

If a military officer in training has been commanded by the government to shoot at a certain target at a certain time, and when that time comes, a lost person is standing of the target, is the officer in training required to shoot the person?

@Rosie~ If I am fully capable of saving their life—safely, and the speed limit forbids it, then it indirectly necessitates murder! If a military officer in training has been commanded by the government to shoot at a certain target at a certain time, and when that time comes, a lost person is standing of the target, is the officer in training required to shoot the person?

Okay, let's say that the passenger is dying and you come to a traffic jam. What do you do?

^I'll leave it at that as a start^

I think the point was…if someone's dying and you're trying to take them to the hospital, speeding or not speeding isn't going to determine if they live or die, because our times are in God's hands. Of course you should do everything you can to get them to the hospital, not just sit back and say "Oh, God is in control so I don't have to do anything", but I don't think you need to break the law to get them there.

_EXACTLY!_

@Nathan: Hey, let's say for instance ^since you seem to love situational ethics^, that the passenger was dying and you did speed to get to the hospital - you get to the hospital, and right as you pull in, the person dies. So. You broke the law. Fine, fine - to attempt to save someone's life. And the person still died. Your speeding had absolutely *nothing* to do with whether the person would die or not. The person could die whether or not you speed because God is in control of our lives - not the speed we go to make it to the hospital!
You are just trying to come up with situations/scenarios to justify speeding. That is situational ethics and pragmatism. God has ordained men to make laws for our safety. We must always obey that law. If a person dies because we didn't speed, as we've explained, he died because that was God's plan. He would have died even if you were speeding if it was God's plan. It would be sin to speed, because God has made that law for us.

I'm not saying that speeding would guarantee to save the person's life. But since we don't know what God's will is, we need to make it as likely as possible. If the person dies because we crept down the road at 30 miles an hour when it would have been safe to go 60, and the person dies when you pull in, it is likely your fault. But if you sped, and they died when you pulled in, you can honestly say you took every possible effort to save them.

If the government's laws require you not to do all you safely can to save someone's life, then they require you to sin. There's no way to argue with that.

You are just trying to come up with situations/scenarios to justify speeding.

If I were you, I would just not try to read minds (especially over the internet!). For one thing, I'm saying speeding is usually right, because it's usually not. For the other thing, I'm not trying to justify anything; because speeding to save a life doesn't need to be justified–just defended.

It would be sin to speed, because God has made that law for us.

Unless it requires us to break His 6^th^ commandment. God will never, ever put a law in place that requires us to break another of His laws.

In a traffic jam, you are actually unable to go fast. Depending on the situation, you might be able to, but that would potentially harm/kill other people; so it would be wrong.

I think the point was...if someone's dying and you're trying to take them to the hospital, speeding or not speeding isn't going to determine if they live or die, because our times are in God's hands. Of course you should do everything you can to get them to the hospital, not just sit back and say "Oh, God is in control so I don't have to do anything", but I don't think you need to break the law to get them there.

But what if the person survives only because you broke the speed limit? Any situation and any outcome is possible in this world, so we could justify anything if we just found the right situation.

This is a verse I brought up earlier.
Proverbs 24:11-12: If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain; If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?

Yes, I know that you would not exactly be leaving him to die since he might survive with you following the speed limit. What I think it comes down to is which is more important: obeying civil laws, or saving someone's life. Whether or not the person's life is saved, you still must make a decision of which comes first. If it was safe to do so in this situation, I personally would have to either break the speed limit, or my conscience.

*_EXACTLY!_* @Nathan: Hey, let's say for instance ^since you seem to love situational ethics^, that the passenger was dying and you did speed to get to the hospital - you get to the hospital, and right as you pull in, the person dies. So. You broke the law. Fine, fine - to attempt to save someone's life. And the person still died. Your speeding had _absolutely *nothing*_ to do with whether the person would die or not. The person could die whether or not you speed because God is in control of our lives - not the speed we go to make it to the hospital! You are just trying to come up with situations/scenarios to justify speeding. That is situational ethics and pragmatism. God has ordained men to make laws for our safety. We must always obey that law. If a person dies because we didn't speed, as we've explained, he died because that was God's plan. He would have died even if you were speeding if it was God's plan. It would be sin to speed, because God has made that law for us.

Yes, God is always in control, but he always holds us to our actions. If I was to chop down a neighbor's favorite tree, for example, even though God was in control of it coming down, he would still judge me for my cruelty. Your situation could be correct, but you still got that much closer to saving them. I am not trying to come up with situations to justify speeding. I came to that conclusion from reading the Bible where it says to save lives when possible (Proverbs 24:11-12, which I have used previously). I personally think that that command trumps a man-made law of how fast you can drive, although I would keep it the rest of the time since we are to obey leaders.

As I said in my last post, it is also very important to note that the government DOES provide exceptions to the speed limit rule (such as the real attempt to save a life). It would be breaking the posted law, but the government would not prosecute or hold it agains the speeding person.

In the case of a person in the car dying, we must assume that, as they are dying, the responsibility to look out for the person's life has been entrusted to us for this short amount of time. It is not right to sit back and take that responsibility lightly. In a crunch, I would rather do my all to save a life (in God's hands, I know) than follow the speed limit. I think the Bible frowns heavily (as Aidan said) upon not doing all that you can. Still, the government understands if you speed to save, and I think that has a big impact on this question.

As I said in my last post, it is also very important to note that the government DOES provide exceptions to the speed limit rule (such as the real attempt to save a life). It would be breaking the posted law, but the government would not prosecute or hold it agains the speeding person. In the case of a person in the car dying, we must assume that, as they are dying, the responsibility to look out for the person's life has been entrusted to us for this short amount of time. It is not right to sit back and take that responsibility lightly. In a crunch, I would rather do my all to save a life (in God's hands, I know) than follow the speed limit. I think the Bible frowns heavily (as Aidan said) upon not doing all that you can. Still, the government understands if you speed to save, and I think that has a big impact on this question.

Amen!

Aiden and Jimmy, thank you so much; that helps a lot! I'm learning as I go here, too. =)
And thanks for the passage especially, Aiden; that puts 100% proof on what -I've- we've been saying.

Aiden and Jimmy, thank you *so* much; that helps a lot! I'm learning as I go here, too. =) And thanks for the passage especially, Aiden; that puts 100% proof on what -I've- we've been saying.

You're welcome! I think that the Bible is where we must begin when forming our beliefs.
Good job to you as well! You have done well supporting your views on this subject and using Scripture to back it up.