Speeding

I'd say the standard is that if you're putting people in likely danger, you shouldn't do it. Going 40 on a 30 highway where there're no cars doesn't put anyone in danger.

I have to say it again. You cannot trust mankind to use such discretion. There may be people like us who would be wise in how we drive, going only slightly over the speed limit only when we think it's for the best. But it is extremely unwise for us to set a precedent of disobeying fixed governmental laws, because most others will abuse the privilege of slightly bending the rules (as they do, even though they do not have that legal privilege!). And if we start with the speed limit, where will we (or others watching our example) stop? Can we bend other laws too? Can we break into another person's house if we happen to find it convenient to do so? Are we permitted to break any law that we please, if it is in our best interests? Dude, that's what is called anarchy. That is why God allows government to set laws that may seem strict–because if it doesn't, people will abuse whatever privileges they are given. We need to be the example-setters, not the rule-benders.

I still don't know why we're talking about this. It's easy. Obey the speed limit unless you have a legitimate emergency, even then, use discretion.

Like if you need to use the room of toilets right away. And then you don't need discretion until you get inside, and then its very important.

facepalm

How many times are ya'll gonna make me say it ain't about stinkin' convenience!?

I like Sam's standard. But there is no reason to break into someone's house–no legitimate emergency. Well, okay; if you read Sherlock Holmes or the Hardy Boys, you may find some exceptions. But you get my point.

And I would add to what Carissa said (with which I agree): If you are in a situation which necessitates speeding in order to complete on time whatever you need done... too bad. Unless it is truly an emergency, I honestly think it is directly disobedient to Scripture to violate such a clear law of government.

Totally agree. The speed limit is for your safety, as well as others.

Hey Nicolas, I want to know what you would do in this situation. You're driving down the road with a passengers. The passenger suddenly has a heart attack. The nearest hospital is 15 minutes away if you drive 5mph over the speed limit, but your passenger needs help within 10 minutes, and you can't get an ambulance to reach you in time. What do you do?

I know this sounds kinda ridiculous, but I just want to know what you would do.

Hey Nicolas, I want to know what you would do in this situation. You're driving down the road with a passengers. The passenger suddenly has a heart attack. The nearest hospital is 15 minutes away if you drive 5mph over the speed limit, but your passenger needs help within 10 minutes, and you can't get an ambulance to reach you in time. What do you do? I know this sounds kinda ridiculous, but I just want to know what you would do.

It's either speed or murder. Take your pick.

Wait…I think I know what I would do. What most of us would do. But no sins are more serious than others in God's sight, right?

Wait...I think I know what I would do. What most of us would do. But no sins are more serious than others in God's sight, right?

In that case, it wouldn't be sin!

Umm…I'm sorry? I don't understand. What I meant to say was, murder is not more serious in God's sight than speeding, is it? In God's sight, sin is sin. No matter what sin or what kind of sin it is.

Word to the wise: when my wife's pregnant *GET OFF THE ROAD.*

You expect the whole world to get off the road for nine months straight just because your wife happens to be pregnant?

Word to the wise: when my wife's pregnant *GET OFF THE ROAD.*

You expect the whole world to get off the road for nine months straight _just because your wife happens to be pregnant_?

Is that too much to ask?

Umm...I'm sorry? I don't understand. What I meant to say was, murder is not more serious in God's sight than speeding, is it? In God's sight, sin is sin. No matter what sin or what kind of sin it is.

What I'm saying is: speeding isn't sin if it's to save a life!! (Especially to prevent murder.)

I would still drive at a safe speed, (that's what the speed limits are there for!) If for instance the speed limit was 50 (here they're 65 on straight sections), and at 55 it takes 15 min, don't bother going the 80+ mph needed to get the patient there in time, because you'll likely wreck along the way. Also any medical condition isn't like a time-bomb, where the limits are set, there are so many humanly uncontrollable factors, all of which are in the hands of Almighty God.

If the pastor has the likely possibility of certain delays, he can plan ahead, and if he is still late, he can just explain to his congregation. If the whole church is held up (for a longer period, not just the few minutes speeding could save) because the pastor is not there, then there is a problem in the way the church leadership is set up.

This discussion is the same as that of killing, or lying, or any other thing being wrong in an imagined circumstance.
We must always do what's right, and trust that God is sovereignly holding this world together with or without our rationalizations.

Yeah, drive at a safe speed. 80+ is not safe. But, for example, if you have the choice of either driving 60 in a 50 zone or murdering, then the former is not wrong. God will never put us in a situation that forces us to sin (unless it's our own fault). As for lying, the Israelite midwives lied about saving the babies (Exodus 1:17-19) and God rewarded them for it. This is because the ninth commandment technically only forbids bearing false witness against a neighbor. But that doesn't mean lying is always right. Also, you may not like my word choice "murder," but if you are perfectly capable of saving someone's life and refuse to do so, that's murder.

In short, what Sam said is again proven.

if you are perfectly capable of saving someone's life and refuse to do so, that's murder.

Unless "perfectly capable" also entails breaking clearly set laws, and thus sinning. Can I say something radical? If someone has a heart attack in the passenger seat while I am driving, I would seriously probably not drive any faster than the speed limit. You know why? Because I know that if that guy is going to die, it isn't going to be because I was driving too slow–it was because God had chosen that time for him to die. My speeding might save his life, and thus it will have been God's plan to save his life by that means–but I will not do wrong in order to accomplish right, no matter how great the right is or how slight the wrong is. I have not murdered that man if he dies, because I could not have saved his life without sinning to do so. I strongly disagree with your assertion that speeding is permissible if it is to save a life–because none of my efforts will save him anyway if it is God's plan for him to die, and thus my breaking the law is still just as much a sin as if there was no emergency.

So yes, I have changed my views slightly from what they were at the beginning of this conversation. Speeding is never right. If you are in an emergency, pray hard that God will save the injured individual, but continue to keep the law. Call me crazy if you wish; but this is what I would do.

Well, I guess neither of us can prove anything, but I think that's murder.

Well, okay. Maybe not necessarily. If you can't speed to save a life in good conscience, don't speed. But I think I'd have to say that saying speeding is wrong to save a life is… the L-word… okay: legalism.

Well, okay. Maybe not necessarily. If you can't speed to save a life in good conscience, don't speed. But I think I'd have to say that saying speeding is wrong to save a life is... the L-word... okay: legalism.

Please explain why you think that. I do not at all consider it legalism to assert that speeding is sinning, and thus that I will not sin even to save a life.

Well, I guess neither of us can prove anything, but I think that's murder.

I can prove it. If I must sin to save someone's life and I decide not to do so, that is not murder. Physical capability to save this person's life has nothing to do with the question if I must sin to save him.

I think the problem lies in the fact that I think the government doesn't have the right to kill someone with speed limits.

I think the problem lies in the fact that I think the government doesn't have the right to kill someone with speed limits.

Dude. Government puts speed limits in place to keep people from getting killed! Some people might get killed by lower speed limits, but even more would be killed by higher speed limits! But we are debating over whether a governmental law is logical; and that is not our present debate. Our debate is over whether we must obey the government's directives unless doing so would necessarily entail sin–and I hold that we must. If someone must die because of it, that was God's plan, and I could not have done anything about it.

Well, okay. Maybe not necessarily. If you can't speed to save a life in good conscience, don't speed. But I think I'd have to say that saying speeding is wrong to save a life is... the L-word... okay: legalism.

It's nice to know you think I'm a legalist.

Ooh! Really interesting discussion! You guys are making good arguments, and I keep changing my mind when you post! :)

As for me (right now), I would tend to say that you should follow the speed limits in virtually every circumstance. The problem first becomes difficult regarding the government's own stance on the issue: they seem to be fine with people going up to five over the limit. If that is the case, is going one mph over really a sin? Most would say no. I tend to want to lean that way, but I also think that when the government says something, the Bible says that we should generally obey it (I believe there are exceptions to Romans 13 (government tells you to sin/deny your faith), but you may disagree on this point). In this area, I would just say that it is better to say "follow the limit. It is the right thing to do."

In the area of safety, though, I would actually argue that it is NOT O.K. to follow the speed limit. This might sound sad (but it is true), but our entire society seems to have accepted the (five over/pregnant wife/late for work rule). Almost everyone drives over the speed limit. It really is a mass type of peer pressure, because it is actually dangerous not to drive five over. When a faster car encounters a slower one, the chances increase greatly for an accident. To drive noticeably slower than EVERY car on the road is just not safe. I am not saying that it is morally wrong, but until many more people follow the speed limit, it is just not safe.

I would argue, though, that there are a couple instances in which it would be O.K. to go over the limit. Note that this could become a slippery slope: some exceptions lead to others. Say in the unlikely circumstance that someone is under road rage and is trying to ram you or run you and your family off the road. It is said that the best way is to not slow down but to avoid/lose the car. This might require breaking the speed limit. If you don't, you can be sure that people (not yourself, but others) will be hurt. This is unacceptable in my book. We must protect the lives God has given us/entrusted to us (especially in the case of a father). Others have said it, but if it is a sin not to go over, then go over.

By the way, I thought I should bring up that the government provides for clear exceptions to their speed limit rules (and allows for them to be broken in some special cases, not including expectant mothers, by the way :) ), such as the one I posted above. It is not wrong to them to break the speeding law to save your life from a maniacal driver. I do not know how this would change the conversation, but I just thought it would be interesting to discuss this aspect of the question as well. :)

Speed limits are just suggestions.

Wow, Jimmy. You may have just resolved this whole thing! :-D

Abigail, I do not think that is true. If they are just suggestions, they why are people punished if they are caught violating them?

You guys have the wrong perspective here. The purpose of speed limits is safety. The government wants safety. So if you speed to save someone's life, does that really resist the government? Or does it make an appropriate exception to their rule and honor them all the more?

Jimmy already mentioned an example I was going to mention: what if I'm driving in a 30 zone and villains are chasing me at 50? The only way to save myself, which is my responsibility, is to speed. The government doesn't have the right to prevent me from not killing myself. And they wouldn't want to anyway.

I see a lot of talk going around about the government "not having the right to stop me" in such-and-such situations on this thread, and on some others, so I wanna make it clear: as Christians, the government is NOT our enemy. God placed the government over us to guide and protect us. We may not agree with everything they do, we may not like the people in office, but, in and of itself the government is not evil. We shouldn't look at our relationship with the government as an "us-versus-them" type arrangement, but to look at them as the older brother, who is trying to guide us the best it can.

Again, I'm not saying that we should agree with everything the government says or does. Only that we should treat them with the respect they deserve because of their office.

Agreed, Sam! Annnnd, there is nothing wrong with making an exception to their safety rule if not doing so will result in someone's death. Ask any government official and they will agree.

Speed limits are just suggestions.

^Then why do they call them speed limits? It's the limit, not a suggestion.^

^Then why do they call them speed *limits*? It's the *limit*, not a *suggestion*.^

Yeah, there are actually signs for limits and signs for suggestions. I think if the sign is a yellow-orange-ish color, it's just a suggestions (and it doesn't say "speed limit"). But otherwise, it's the law.

Perzactly. ^I think.^

Umm...I'm sorry? I don't understand. What I meant to say was, murder is not more serious in God's sight than speeding, is it? In God's sight, sin is sin. No matter what sin or what kind of sin it is.

What I'm saying is: speeding isn't sin if it's to save a life!! (Especially to prevent murder.)

I might agree with that. I just might.

Here's something else: does avoiding any sin make murder okay? What if someone makes a vow, and then something weird happens and they have to murder someone in order to keep their vow? Does that mean that murdering the person would be okay because it is to avoid sinning by breaking the vow? No.

You're all saying that avoiding breaking the law makes deliberately killing someone okay. But what if avoiding deliberately killing someone makes breaking the law okay? What if it's the other way around? No one can say which is right or wrong.

But you wouldn't be deliberately killing someone. I disagree with you there.

It's funny - I and a lot of other people here are defending that you shouldn't disobey the speed limit to save a life. Yet, if we were in such a situation, our personal beliefs would probably go to the side, sadly. I mean, who would think about the speed limit so much when their loved one is sitting in the car dying?

I mean, who would think about the speed limit so much when their loved one is sitting in the car dying?

THAT'S MY POINT. Would you seriously put a speed limit over a human life?

I don't think I would in a situation like that. I think God also understands humans. He cares for human life himself. But He also cares that we obey the government. I think you are right though, the government usually would understand in a situation like that.

This is depressing. I hope I'm never in a car with any of you.

I should create a topic called "Manslaughter" and ask if everyone thinks manslaughter is okay if it's to avoid speeding.

Well, there is one called Is It Right to Kill Someone? that kind of has this discussion on it.

This is depressing. I hope I'm never in a car with any of you.

If you're dying while I'm driving you, you can just trust in God to save you if it's His will, and be ready to die if it's His will to let you die because I'm driving too slow. ;P

Well, there is one called Is It Right to Kill Someone? that kind of has this discussion on it.

Completely different. Manslaughter is a mistake, and that topic deals with doing it in poipose.

This is depressing. I hope I'm never in a car with any of you.

If you're dying while I'm driving you, you can just trust in God to save you if it's His will, and be ready to die if it's His will to let you die because I'm driving too slow. ;P

They seem like they're the same to me…

This is depressing. I hope I'm never in a car with any of you.

Well now its my goal in life to kidnap you and drive you somwheres. :P

Hahaha! :)

They seem like they're the same to me...

He just told you they are diffrent!

Hi! I just looked up the definition of manslaughter. There is involuntary and voluntary manslaughter. Involuntary is when you accidentally kill someone, such as in a car crash. Voluntary is when you meant to harm someone, but not kill them, such as in a fight when you hit harder than you meant. Hope that helps!

This is depressing. I hope I'm never in a car with any of you.

Your arguments are depressing. I hope I'm never in a car with you. ^JK…^

^Wait, you have been in a car with me. Just not me driving. If I were, you might not come out alive to complain about me following the speed limit. :P^

Here is my opinion on the subject. Sometimes one duty conflicts with another. Such as when a magistrate commands us to worship him rather than God. We must refuse because God calls us to serve and worship him alone. I view this case similarly, even though I admit it would be rare. If someone will die by you following the speed limit, I believe you MUST speed to save his life, because otherwise you would be killing him in a sense.

It reminds me of Proverbs 24:11-12: If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain; If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?

I certainly understand others viewpoints by not wanting to disobey civil governors and their laws, but sometimes we must, and I personally think this would be one of those times. Of course God is always in control, but he still will hold you to what you do whether it be good or bad.

My dad told me that if you were speeding to save someone's life and got pulled over, and you explained it, you would be allowed to. Resolved. (And even if that wasn't the case, I won't sin to avoid speeding.)

Way to go, Aiden!

Yes, I believe the police will follow you to the hospital to make sure that something was really the matter with someone, and if there was truly an illness/injury it will not go on your record and you will not get a ticket.