Music

The average…is the average. From what I've heard of secular music, most of it is bad. Well you listen to it all the time..but I don't. See my reply to Ian.

Here is a great article that I found…it was written by Bob Jennings (don't know if you've heard of him) who was a very godly man who went to be with the Lord a year or so ago. http://illbehonest.com/good-music-bob-jennings When you find the time, please read this article and let me know your thoughts.

And, how much have you heard? Me, I listen only to good stuff, not a lot of mainstream artists. I listen mostly to Christian artists, with some secular artists. And, "the average" depends on who you are. Sure, you really shouldn't listen to Nicki Minaj, or Miley Cyrus. But, you can't generalize all of secular music based on a few bad ones. I'm not saying there aren't a lot of bad ones out there, there are. But generalization tends to lump both the good and the bad together. "Unmusical"? That all depends on who you are.

And, how much have you heard? Me, I listen only to good stuff, not a lot of mainstream artists. I listen mostly to Christian artists, with some secular artists. And, "the average" depends on who you are. Sure, you really shouldn't listen to Nicki Minaj, or Miley Cyrus. But, you can't generalize all of secular music based on a few bad ones. I'm not saying there aren't a lot of bad ones out there, there are. But generalization tends to lump both the good and the bad together. "Unmusical"? That all depends on who you are.

Ditto.

I don't know…I don't keep a log of how much I have heard of that noisy stuff. You must understand that this is my opinion…and what I believe is right/wrong. And yes, to me, it is very unmusical!

For me I only listen to Christian music, and most of the songs I have listened to have actually got me thinking about where I am in my life, and where I am in my relationship with God.

Okay. For me, though that is not how it works.

I think I agree with you on this, Carissa. A lot of rock music and some other contemporary styles that I hear (there is more of this on Air1 than on K-LOVE) I would consider to be mostly noise, i.e., unmusical. There are even some K-LOVE artists that I don't care for (I won't give any names so as to not offend). I have radically different tastes in music than even my dad. However, though you might not agree with me on this, I believe that this should only be a matter of opinion. It is as much an opinion as foods that some may enjoy and others detest. The reason I believe this is because the Bible has nothing to say on which style is better - small wonder, because the styles of Bible times were radically different than anything we hear today, classical or not!

EDIT: Oh, and as for music with secular lyrics - it is my opinion that we should stay away from that. I believe that music should glorify God.

Wow, you miss out on a lot of good classical music then. Though some of the composers may have been Christian, the music certainly isn't Christian.

I agree with Matthew on this one–sound cannot be in itself morally good or bad. It's all a matter of opinion. Maybe you detest rock or rap. That's perfectly fine. But it's your opinion, nothing more. I'd say more, but I have to go. :)

I really like that article you posted, Carissa. Thanks for sharing the link! :)

You know what I meant. :)

@Rachel: Glad you liked it :)
@Matthew: In one sense I agree with you and in another sense I don't. Yes, it is my opinion but I also think that lots of music out there is bad…mot just because of opinion by people like me but actually bad.

Carissa, could you explain exactly why that music is bad? In reality, it is only sound. I think that in itself, sound cannot be sinful. What do you think?

I'm assuming you're talking about different styles of music, not music with ungodly or questionable lyrics. So putting aside for the moment your opinion, how can music with Christian lyrics not be glorifying to God? How can any style of music be morally wrong?

Haha, we posted at the same time. :P

Yes, I do believe that some styles of music can be morally wrong…even if there are great lyrics with it. We are told to do all things to glorify God and to do what is pleasing to the Lord. I do not believe that the Lord is glorified by "music" that is a lot of beating noise and has nothing to it. And if the music is so loud that it drowns out the words. Also, the notes, in certain orders, portray a meaning. If you play one chord you will get a "happy" sound. While another chord that is played will end up with a "sad" sound. So putting notes together in that way portrays a message.

Like I said to Matthew…notes put in a certain order portrays a message. Some songs are sad, some are happy, some are suspenseful and others are thrilling, etc… All music is put in a style that portrays something. When I hear that music (rock, rap, pop, etc…) I think of the music trying to portray disorder, chaos, etc… Our God is a God of order so why would he be pleased by disorderly, hectic, chaotic music? I hope that I have not come across harsh…this is just what I believe.

Like I said to Matthew...notes put in a certain order portrays a message. Some songs are sad, some are happy, some are suspenseful and others are thrilling, etc... All music is put in a style that portrays something. When I hear that music (rock, rap, pop, etc...) I think of the music trying to portray disorder, chaos, etc... Our God is a God of order so why would he be pleased by disorderly, hectic, chaotic music? I hope that I have not come across harsh...this is just what I believe.

I totally agree with what you said, Carissa. Our God is a God of order, and not confusion!

I agree with you to a certain extent, Carissa. I think that such music as rock can be very harmful to some. However, I would like to ask a hypothetical question (just to understand your position). Say I have a radio in the middle of an abandoned desert. In this radio is a program to play a series of musical tunes. If I press a button from hundreds of miles away and activate the radio (which plays rock music), would I be committing a sin? I am playing rock music, but no one is hearing or listening. I guess my question is, is it an act of rebellion against God to play rock music, to listen to it, both, or neither?

But then, all of that depends on your interpretation of the sounds. If I enjoy rock music (which I do! Skillet is a great Christian rock band!) and I do not perceive the music as disorderly/chaotic as you do, does that make it sin for me?

I love Skillet! But to you, Sam, I think it is impossible to like both Skillet (awesome music) and Tobygay (name says it all)

facedesk

His name is not Tobygay it's tobyMac! And FYI he is married and has several kids!

@Rachel: Yup! :)
@jimmy: I don't think that it's an act of rebellion but I don't think that it is pleasing to the Lord. There's better music that can be listened to. And if people aren't sure if it's pleasing to the Lord why not just be on the safe side and not listen to it. I personally see that music as something of the world and the God and the world are not "together"…they are "against each other".

I believe that a lot of this has to do with our consciences. There are no specific verses in the Bible about this subject but we are told about making other people stumble. If you were to listen to it…then you listen to it but if you were to listen to it in front of me that would make a stumbling block. I hope this answers your question if not I explained some more to Jimmy.

@All: I am very sorry if I am coming across harsh. If I am please tell me.

Again, the orderliness/disorderliness of music is all based on opinion. I personally think that rap is a very organized music style. The same could be said of rock or pop (though, I'd say, not to the same extent). The instruments (and autotuners, and beatboxes, and etc…. ;) ) still work together in harmony, though not in the same way as classical music or hymns.

EDIT–Whoa. We posted at the same time as well! :D

Oh, and don't worry. You're not coming off harsh. :)

Okay…maybe it is, just to me it appears to be very disorderly because there's not really any tune to it (at least to me) and it's just lots of noise and sounds put together.

:) You like to post at the same time as everybody else, don't you? :)

Okay, good.

Well… how many rap songs have you listened to? I haven't heard any Christian rap song that does not have a tune. Many of the songs I've heard could be enjoyed (by me, at least) even without lyrics, because they are of good musical quality. I haven't listened to a rap song that wasn't orderly and well put together; what songs have you heard that you consider to be of bad quality, may I ask? :)

Actually, I don't like it much. :P But whatever. ;)

Ummm….I don't know…but I have heard a few…

Oh, okay… :)

I'm of the opinion that anything can be used to glorify God, if used rightly. So if a rap song is formed carefully and in an orderly way, and lyrics are made for it that glorify God, the song is a very good thing. Some people may not like the sound, but (as Matthew said), sound is as much a matter of opinion as is food. Any song (as long as it is put together in an organized fashion), no matter in what style of music, cannot be wrong in itself, in my opinion. Do you agree, or do you still have an objection? :)

I agree with some of what you said :) I still think that not every song….even if it is put together rightly is right. Just the order in which the notes are put and the end result of how it sounds has a lot to do with it. To me, like I said, that sort of music is a sign of the world. But yes, I would say that I see that most of it is opinion.

So, I have a question for you…do you think that something can be not good and not wrong (does that make sense)?

I think that the world cannot have true possession of anything. Everything belongs to God, so just because the world uses something God owns improperly does not mean that a Christian cannot use that same thing to glorify God. Could some people associate that thing with the world so much that they cannot glorify God through it because of that association? Yes. But I do not think that it is impossible to glorify God through something only because the world uses the same thing sinfully.

As for your question, yes, I do believe that is possible. I would call something like that "neutral". Classical music is an example of something that is neutral. But with all neutral things, it is possible to use them for good or for evil. For example, you could put terrible lyrics to a classical song, or very godly lyrics to the same song. The same could be said of the Internet, cars, and even pencils and paper, along with many other things.

Okay then, I guess I am one of those people who associate it so much with the world that I cannot glorify God through it. Did you perhaps read the article I posted…it's a link on the previous page (I think…)?

Okay. Thanks for your answer.

No, I did not read that article yet. I will as soon as I can, though. :)

P.S. Sorry, I have to go now. Just making sure you know why I'm gone. :)

Okay, let me know what you think of it.

Okay, I've got to go as well.

I keep trying to reply to this conversation but I'm realizing that I really have nothing to say other than repeat what was already said! Thanks so much Nicolas, you hit the nail right on the head. :D

Ok guys, never been on Theology forum before :)

I don't really have an opinion on whether or not we should listen to secular music. Yet :) but the more I think about it, the more it seems ok. After all, we watch secular movies. I'm not talking about R-rated stuff or anything, just G and PG and the like :) so, for instance, a Disney movie. Is it bad to watch that movie because it wasn't made by Christians? How about books? If someone wrote a book and he wasn't a Christian, or the content wasn't Christian, is that automatically bad? I don't think so. It just seems like secular movies and books are ok, but when it comes to music, if it's secular, then it automatically becomes bad. I understand if the music content is bad, then no, we shouldn't be listening to it, because yes, it will influence us. But won't books and movies have the same effect?

@Hannah: Welcome! :D

I agree with you… to a certain extent. Classical music in particular is mostly secular, and yet it is one of the best music styles out there. If the music does not have lyrics, it is probably safe to listen to. However, what about secular lyrics? Isn't the intended purpose of music to glorify God? Am I wrong about that?

@biblebee: Thank you for clearing that up, Carissa! Once again, I would agree that secular music can be bad, but I would also say that it is not necessarily so, as Hannah said.

@Matthew: Must a thing's original purpose be its ONLY purpose? If music's original purpose is to glorify God, must that be the only factor when music is created?

Well, I don't know if music is here JUST to glorify God…but yes, I do agree that there are many occurrences in the Bible where music was used to praise Him. For instance, we should all know the one in Ephesians by now… :) Ephesians 5:19-speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord." And somewhere in Colossians 3 :) -teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord." Plus, we have a whole book of psalms with the main purpose being to praise God. So I do agree that music has a special place in helping us to glorify God. But what if we just listen to music with lyrics, just like we watch movies? In other words, music set apart to glorify God, and music that is not necessarily wrong by itself, but with the purpose to entertain, just like movies? I don't know :)

@jimmy: That's kind of what I was thinking, but couldn't quite put it into words.

... #1 After all, we watch secular movies. I'm not talking about R-rated stuff or anything,.. #2 It just seems like secular movies and books are ok, but when it comes to music, if it's secular, then it automatically becomes bad?

#1: I have seen R-rated movies that have very GOOD messages, even Christian ones (messages). (Those were, however, were not rated R for sexual content, nudity, drug use, etc.)

#2 Good point. I like some of the Linkin' Park songs, and even though they aren't Christian those specific ones are okay, (I think.)

Deadpool: "Well, that shut everybody up!"

Also he wants you to know that all his media is clean as well.

He's a liar.

Yeah, I agree, a few R-rated movies out there can be good, but almost all of them have content that is not in line with Philippians 4:8 :)

Forgive me for asking, but what is Deadpool? Nevermind, just Googled it lol

So, I just heard Courageous by Casting Crowns. And I had several things about it. I hope this does not offend any of you who likes Casting Crowns.

1. I didn't like how the people sang it.
2. The music was so loud that I could barely hear the words.
3. The beat was way to much.

Those are three reasons why I don't like that sort of music.

gasps
I'M OFFENDED!

Sorry. Do you want me to delete my comment?

…………stop being so nice Carissa. Really. I was kidding.

You want me to be mean???? I knew that :) I was too :)

Forgive me for asking, but what is Deadpool? Nevermind, just Googled it lol

He's shocked and horrified that you didn't know who he is. in fact, he's crying right now!