Dating vs Courtship.

Is it right/proper for girls and guys to tease/joke and talk about marriage boy/girlfriends and love on the MV forums? Why or why not?

Hmmm. I would say no, teasing and joking about that sort of thing isn't generally proper on a public forum. It stirs up trains of thought and possibly feelings that are unnecessary and silly. It also makes other people uncomfortable. It is therefore unloving and unwise.
However, I've seen it happen before where it wasn't weird, just funny. And that was because the teasing would have been so abitrary (and offensive) if the person was serious. But then you'd have to be careful that it isn't coarse jesting.
Otherwise, I find no reason biblically that we can't tease and joke with one another about pure things. It's good for our pride, develops our wit, and can bring about good medicine. :)

Mmkay. I'm curious what the M's, A's and Seth will say...

Not that C's?! That's rude!
Is offended

I already know what he'll say ;-) At least I know the general idea… ;-)

And I think I know what Nic will say! And

*nicolas

Yeah…but I still want to hear cause I'm not sure..

Cool beans bro.

Well I'll just make one comment for the time being. :) The only distinction that made between 'normal' teasing and 'guy-girl' teasing is that some people may be offended or find it inappropriate. So, this is not a 'right or wrong' issue, it's a 'is this causing someone to stumble' issue. I'm not sure if that was your intent or not, so some clarification may be helpful.

EDIT I ususally suggest that if the one being teased doesn't want to be teased, then they respectfully but firmly ask the teaser to stop. If they don't, then the teased may want to go to the authorities, explain the scenario, and ask them to put a stop to it. If the teased is not willing to do this, then is is possible that they should just stay quiet and accept the teasing, which likely isn't actually bothering them too much (whatever they may say) if they're not willing to take steps to prevent/stop it. Not saying this is the best thing to do in every situtation, but I generally use it as a starting point.

Yes, thank you for clarifing. I was wondering what people thought about it. :)

Is it right/proper for girls and guys to tease/joke and talk about marriage boy/girlfriends and love on the MV forums? Why or why not?

Okayo, as my opinion is apparently desired by some, I will give it, humble as it is. ;)

I should probably begin by saying that I believe that most teasing about "marriage, boy/girlfriends and love" is inappropriate at best in this setting, the Memverse forums. Granted, it often depends on the situation, but let's step back and take this in perspective. Of all the important events that are going to be happening to us young people in the near future, the one that will probably have the most profound and lasting effects on us is who we decide to marry, if we do decide to marry. In all likelihood, that decision that we'll probably make in a few short years will be one that lasts nearly our whole lives. Marriage and romantic love (or eros , as I'd prefer to say) are some of the most serious things we could possibly talk about, frankly– especially at our age! I have very low tolerance for jokes about such weighty matters, because these things are not to be trifled with. I suppose I'm not totally opposed to a few harmless jabs every once in a (preferably long) while, but I really shy away from such joking myself, and do not like to see others partaking in it. I don't believe joking about these things is necessarily immoral, but it is unwise at best. We need to keep in mind the seriousness of these matters before we tease others about them, even close friends who know we don't mean anything by it–because honestly, it doesn't matter if the person you are teasing isn't offended; it matters whether you should be being so flippant about such things in the first place.

So there's my four half-cents… agree, or don't, but that's my opinion on the matter. ;)

Is it right/proper for girls and guys to tease/joke and talk about marriage boy/girlfriends and love on the MV forums? Why or why not?

I think it's inappropriate, in most cases. I agree with what Seth and SBG said.

One thing I don't think anyone else has brought up is how the teasing might affect the teased socially. Sometimes, they're being teased about a certain person of the opposite gender. Even if it is a good friend who is doing the teasing, it brings up wrong thoughts. The teased then wonders about the other person. They want to prevent anything like what they've been teased about from happening, so a coolness often springs up between the two victims, and a good friendship is ruined. It's kind of like gossip - the only real difference is that you're doing it to their face as teasing. (Supposedly the teaser is 'teasing', and does not mean what he says, but it has the same effect.)

Teasing like that brings up wrong thoughts in the minds of the teased, and the ones who witness the teasing. It creates a gossip atmosphere, oftentimes.

I think we should stay away from placing that stumblingblock in each other's path. Since marriage is in the near future for at least some of us, it is doubly harmful.

Do I make any sense at all?

Yes, that make sense.

Is it right/proper for girls and guys to tease/joke and talk about marriage boy/girlfriends and love on the MV forums? Why or why not?

I don't mind being teased. I can laugh at myself, most of the time. When it comes to being teased about someone, the biggest thing to me is making sure the person I'm being teased about doesn't have a problem with it. If they do, I do too, because I don't want to lose a friend just because of teasing. In which case I would probably handle it the way Seth suggested (if that's what was required).

We need to make sure that what we say and do is glorifying to God as well. (Ephesians 5:4)

Nicolas, you just said it all! I agree 100% with everything you said! Great job! Mind if I post this on the MSFM forum as a quote from you?

I know I've said it before, but I sometimes wonder how many people stay off the Forums because of the foolish jesting that goes on. I knew a few of those people…

I.K.R.?

I believe matchmaking is more biblical and appropriate than either Dating or Courtship.

I think if the parents are interested in someone for their child, they should just try to make the two families closer friends. It would be very awkward for the guy and girl if the parents tried to start a relationship for them, no matter who makes the final decision. I think the child should tell the parents who he/she wants to court.

*I have an honest question for the older girls on here.* Boys can give their opinions as well but please remember that I am *not* asking for a bunch of inappropriate comments. Do you think it is right for young girls to pray for a particular young man? In other words is it appropriate for a girl to pray something like this, “Lord, if it is Your will please turn the heart of So-and-So’s heart toward me.” (Prov. 21:1, Matt. 7:7) Is it right to pray for your future husband by name? Is that having “faith” or is that just “brash and inappropriate”? Edit: Just so you know, I was not asking this question for myself really. It was for discussion and encouraging purposes. :) Thanks!

Absolutely! There is nothing in Scripture that would even hint otherwise; and this is a totally pure mindset. This goes for boys, too!

Hmm. That's interesting. I don't think I'm qualified to answer, but I will share a little something that I've found encouraging. I learned it from a teaching by an older lady whom I admire. I'm not saying this applies to the above question, it has just really helped me.
Think of any guy (or for guys, think of a girl). You don't know who their future wife/husband will be. It might be you, it might be your sister, it might be someone you've never met in your life, you don't know. But God does, and He has chosen whom we will marry or not marry before the foundation of the world. If we are making air castles about people we think we might marry, we just might be making air castles about someone else's husband or wife, and I think that should be embarassing and frightening. If it turns out you were going to marry that person, there is no need to imagine, you have a whole lifetime to live with them. :)
Anyway, that has been really helpful to me. :)

My dad has been reading some articles off a blog titled True Love Doesn't Wait. I read the opening page, and heard him talk about it some. Basically, the guy's message is that courtship is failing to produce the marriages it was intended to, and that betrothal, or matchmaking, as Elanee phrased it, is more biblical. I find it very interesting! I think if you search for True Love Doesn't Wait, you should find his site.

I agree, very much so.

I disagree, my wife will NOT be my sister!

SLAY THIS HERETIC! KILL IT WITH FIRE!

Facedesk

Mike Farris, in one of his 'talks' last month, spoke about courtship. He said several of his daughters married other very successful men using this method. He highly recommended it as the safest way available.

I have come to the realization today that our joking around here (about marriage and "love") has become outrages and to the point of inappropriateness. I am not going to partake in those discussions anymore. I am not blaming anyone. This is just my personal choice… you all can decided what you will do about it for yourselves. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and answering my questions.
Your big sister,
Sarah

I disagree, my wife will *NOT* be my sister! *SLAY THIS HERETIC! KILL IT WITH FIRE!*

SMITE HER WITH A CURSE!

WITH A PLAGUE!

WITH THE SWORD!

We should not build "air castles." "Building air castles" means that you're dreaming in a fantasy-like way; and that's not good. People can be in love without doing that. And besides, that has nothing to do with age. People can foolishly build castles in the air at any age, and whether or not they're ready.

My dad has been reading some articles off a blog titled True Love Doesn't Wait. I read the opening page, and heard him talk about it some. Basically, the guy's message is that courtship is failing to produce the marriages it was intended to, and that betrothal, or matchmaking, as Elanee phrased it, is more biblical. I find it very interesting! I think if you search for True Love Doesn't Wait, you should find his site.

Does this betrothal mean that the parents choose their child's spouse?! Or does it mean that a parent tells the child who that child is to court? And no offense, but that blog post was way too dogmatic. If my parent intentionally tried make me fall in love with someone, it would cause awkwardness in my friendship with that person.

I have come to the realization today that our joking around here (about marriage and "love") has become outrages and to the point of inappropriateness. I am not going to partake in those discussions anymore. I am not blaming anyone. This is just my personal choice… you all can decided what you will do about it for yourselves. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and answering my questions. Your big sister, Sarah

What 'joking'?

I haven't been on here at all, lies of the devil! and Sam said one thing, and you get off because of 'inappropriateness' which is not even there!

My dad has been reading some articles off a blog titled True Love Doesn't Wait. I read the opening page, and heard him talk about it some. Basically, the guy's message is that courtship is failing to produce the marriages it was intended to, and that betrothal, or matchmaking, as Elanee phrased it, is more biblical. I find it very interesting! I think if you search for True Love Doesn't Wait, you should find his site.

Does this betrothal mean that the parents choose their child's spouse?! Or does it mean that a parent tells the child who that child is to court? And no offense, but that blog post was way too dogmatic. If my parent intentionally tried make me fall in love with someone, it would cause awkwardness in my friendship with that person.

Ya kidding?

Betrothal like that is barbaric, stone-age, and stupid. But, if you think its a good idea, go ahead! Let someone else decide who you're gonna marry.

No, Noah! I'm asking if that's what Courtney means!

No, Noah! I'm asking if that's what Courtney means!

I said "Betrothal like that (meaning described in your post) etc"

Yeah; I agree with what you said, too. :-D Good way of putting it! Parents that would force their kids to marry someone are monsters. Done.

Yeah; I agree with what you said, too. :-D Good way of putting it! Parents that would force their kids to marry someone are monsters. Done.

Worse monsters than your awesome rhino!

Yup! :-D

I’d rather be safe then sorry, to a certain point. So that is why I left. I am not afraid of some risks. So that’s why I came back. Now if you have a problem with what I do please come up with a more logical argument (and I’d appreciate it if you can back it up with scripture too).

I’d rather be safe then sorry, to a certain point. So that is why I left. I am not afraid of some risks. So that’s why I came back. Now if you have a problem with what I do please come up with a more logical argument (and I’d appreciate it if you can back it up with scripture too).

I just think you're seeing things that aren't there.

We should not build "air castles." "Building air castles" means that you're dreaming in a fantasy-like way; and that's not good. People can be in love without doing that. And besides, that has nothing to do with age. People can foolishly build castles in the air at any age, and whether or not they're ready.

I agree.

@ Noah: Please tell me you know what I'm talking about. (I was tired of using the him/her dual pronoun thing.)

If my parent intentionally tried make me fall in love with someone, it would cause awkwardness in my friendship with that person.

I'm going to have to agree there…

And it would make me very upset. I think it's downright foolish for parents to do that. If the child is not already in love with someone and the parents want to point out someone as a potential spouse, that's fine. I wouldn't have a problem with that.

See, here's the thing. The end result of courtship is intended to be marriage. That's what you're hoping for. If a parent tries to start a relationship in a child's life with someone but allows the child to make the final decision, the answer is likely going to be "Nah-ah." But if the child tells the parents that he/she wants to court someone and that person's father approves of a courtship, I think it's very likely that the answer will be "Yes!" Now, if the parents just points out someone to the child, the child might get to thinking, "Hmm. He/she really might be a good spouse for me."–and in that case, the child would tell the parents that they are interested in courting that person; and if that person's father approved of a courtship, marriage would likely follow.

Mike Farris, in one of his 'talks' last month, spoke about courtship. He said several of his daughters married other very successful men using this method. He highly recommended it as the safest way available.

I'm not saying that courtship is totally out as an option, I'm just saying that I agree with this guy on this - that there are too many older unmarried Christian girls, with 'what he must be' lists in hand, still looking out for the perfect guy to court, who meets enough of their requirements. They're not going to find one.

My dad has been reading some articles off a blog titled True Love Doesn't Wait. I read the opening page, and heard him talk about it some. Basically, the guy's message is that courtship is failing to produce the marriages it was intended to, and that betrothal, or matchmaking, as Elanee phrased it, is more biblical. I find it very interesting! I think if you search for True Love Doesn't Wait, you should find his site.

Does this betrothal mean that the parents choose their child's spouse?! Or does it mean that a parent tells the child who that child is to court? And no offense, but that blog post was way too dogmatic. If my parent intentionally tried make me fall in love with someone, it would cause awkwardness in my friendship with that person.

In a certain way, yes. I want my father to be very involved in "giving me away". And I'm not saying I agree with everything that guy was saying. And not, a parent shouldn't tell the child who that child is to court. It needs to be the child's choice, but I think the parents should be involved in the choice as well (especially for girls). I think the guy will have more of an active part in the choosing, he will be looking out for girls he might like to marry, and he will bring his choice to his parents. They will then help him work it out between the parents of the girl. The girl will then have the choice of accepting or rejecting his "proposal".

I'm not sure I agree with this totally: when my dad brought this up, it seemed like it was taking me too fast. I kept saying, "well, if it happens like that, how am I ever supposed to get to know that person?" My dad kept saying that that is what marriage is for. I get his point - if you get to know someone too well before marriage, you might find a character flaw, and be relieved that you can just reject that person on ground of that flaw, since you hadn't married them yet. No one is perfect. Does that make any sense?

One thing I also kept saying is that "just because someone has the 'non-negotiables' doesn't mean they're the right one for me. What if I don't love them?" My daddy kept telling me that love is a choice. He was also saying that he doesn't think there is only one person that we should marry in the whole wide world. Of course, God knows and has planned before whom we will marry, but that will necessarily be the first one we marry! We can't marry the wrong person. This is also not to say that we should go marry anyone we see walking the streets, we need to use discretion as well.

Again, I'm not sure if I agree with all of this yet. I'm still thinking about it.

My dad has been reading some articles off a blog titled True Love Doesn't Wait. I read the opening page, and heard him talk about it some. Basically, the guy's message is that courtship is failing to produce the marriages it was intended to, and that betrothal, or matchmaking, as Elanee phrased it, is more biblical. I find it very interesting! I think if you search for True Love Doesn't Wait, you should find his site.

Does this betrothal mean that the parents choose their child's spouse?! Or does it mean that a parent tells the child who that child is to court? And no offense, but that blog post was way too dogmatic. If my parent intentionally tried make me fall in love with someone, it would cause awkwardness in my friendship with that person.

Ya kidding? Betrothal like that is barbaric, stone-age, and stupid. But, if you think its a good idea, go ahead! Let someone else decide who you're gonna marry.

That's not even what the guy was saying. Ultimately, it is the decision of the two most involved - the guy and the girl.

"Stone-age"? That's an evolutionary idea.

My dad has been reading some articles off a blog titled True Love Doesn't Wait. I read the opening page, and heard him talk about it some. Basically, the guy's message is that courtship is failing to produce the marriages it was intended to, and that betrothal, or matchmaking, as Elanee phrased it, is more biblical. I find it very interesting! I think if you search for True Love Doesn't Wait, you should find his site.

Does this betrothal mean that the parents choose their child's spouse?! Or does it mean that a parent tells the child who that child is to court? And no offense, but that blog post was way too dogmatic. If my parent intentionally tried make me fall in love with someone, it would cause awkwardness in my friendship with that person.

Ya kidding? Betrothal like that is barbaric, stone-age, and stupid. But, if you think its a good idea, go ahead! Let someone else decide who you're gonna marry.

That's not even what the guy was saying. Ultimately, it is the decision of the two most involved - the guy and the girl. "Stone-age"? That's an evolutionary idea.

No it ain't. That is the most absurd outburst I've ever heard from you, besides your 'video games' spam.

Sorry, sorry. I don't understand, but sorry anyways. Let me explain.

Stone-age, the term, implies something in an age where people were less intelligent. That follows the evolutionary idea.

Now that might not have been the way you meant it. I must have misunderstood you. I'm sorry.

I just realized I never clarified this: If a young man wants to court a young lady, the father should tell his daughter of the man's desire to court her. Totally agreed. The father shouldn't just wait for the young lady to fall in love with someone. A courtship is when a young man asks the father to court the daughter; and if the father approves, he talks to the daughter and she says either "yes" or "no;" and if the father thinks she's being hasty in saying "no;" he can talk to her about it–but not in any way that puts pressure on her to love him–only to be a bit more open-minded.

Also, we NEED to know someone well before we marry them. It would be foolish to reject someone just because of a little thing they struggle with, but what if you have some huge difference that is going to cause problems in your relationships and with your consciences?! This is deadly! And we should never marry someone before we love them; because when you make the vow, you vow to love them; and if you don't love them yet, the vow as broken in its being made. And if you feel pressure to "fall in love with" someone, it's unlikely that you ever will love them.

I agree that your father should be very involved in giving you away; and I'm glad that you clarified that parents don't do anything awkward to their children.

I agree with your top paragraph completely.

I think we do need to know someone before we marry them, but not that well. It would also be foolish to ignore your what I call "non-negotiables". It is very important to recognize the difference between those and desirables. I think this is one of the problems with courtship - young ladies are often too focused on the desirables. Like, I think we would all agree that a non-negotiable is that our future spouse's top priority must be his/her relationship with God, before anything else. BUT, the desire that my future husband would be willing to let me have an in-home business is something that God should decide in my future spouse, not me. It's not that important. If my future husband is NOT willing to let me do that someday, it will be an exercise for me in submitting to him.

I trust my daddy and God to not recommend someone to me who does not have my non-negotiables. It is for my father to get to know that young man, not me. That will save a lot of hurt in the long run.

See, what happens if a young man and woman begin a courtship and then decide that they aren't good enough for each other? They will probably already have gotten in with their emotions. How could they not? They'd been spending so much time together. Also, there will always be that stigma attached to them by those that knew them. People will always remember that they were courting once, and that it didn't work out. This leads to gossip which can hurt the individuals and the families.

I repeat: I trust my daddy and God to not recommend someone to me who does not have my non-negotiables. It is for my father to get to know that young man, not me.

I'm glad you don't get hung up over things that aren't non-negotiables. All young ladies should be like that.

If they decided they're not good enough for each other and get hurt, that's better than realizing you're not good enough for each other after you're already married.

Well, I'm still working on it. This is still new to me too. Ask my parents, my brother, and my sister - I was very upset over this when I first learned about it. :P Whenever I think about something disagreeable for too long, I start crying, and that's exactly what I was doing when Daddy first started changing his mind. xP

I'm not so sure I agree with you. I think there is another way - the parents of both parties talk something out, and once the dad satisfies himself that the guy has the girl's relatively few non-negotiables, he talks to his daughter about it. She chooses to love him because he has her non-negotiables, and a marriage is worked out fairly quickly, without the time factor involved where a lot of time people get hurt. See? Does this make sense?

@Nate and Courtney ~ IMHO, you two are making this unnecessarily complicated.

Okay, the basic concept just described could be summarized like this: If we're prudent, we might get hurt; therefore, we won't be prudent.

Two things: First of all, the daughter can't be expected to just choose to love someone. Unless she has time to pray about him and is drawn to him of her own free will, her love will probably turn out more like an infatuation. Secondly, if two people "decided they're not good enough for each other," but they love each other, they can work it out. If there are no non-negotiable problems, where there's a will, there's a way. They will enjoy their differences.

You are convincing me that this is not a dangerous and absurd as I thought it was. It's still better than dating.

@Sam~ We like it that way. Deep discussions sharpen our intelligence.