Music

clears throat Guys, this is a music topic… not a dancing topic! :P

Sorry. We'll stop.

singing "I'll become even more undignified than this…" :P

me totally lost by matthews last comment
huh??

@ Carissa…it IS dreadful

I'd never do any dancing at all. It is in with the handwaving principle under the label of "Undignified".

@Stefani - This is the post I was replying to. It's an old Matt Redman song. :)

sigh Nobody gets my joke. :( :P

Sorry :(
Will you be going to the square dance this year again?

snicker I didn't expect you to get it anyways. Only somebody who knows the song would think it's funny. I guess I'm the only one. :P

We are planning on going to the square dance - thanks for reminding me! We still need to get our tickets! I will have to write myself a note.

Okay……………………………
Good! Well you need to get them soon cause the E-store closes on the 15th.

Is that the last date you can purchase tickets?

Rachel: yes.

Oh! ok… I get it now……

"some would say its foolishness" ??

I'd never do any dancing at all. It is in with the handwaving principle under the label of "Undignified".

immediantly thinks of David's wife frowning upon his dancing

Do you happen to remember why his wife frowned on him dancing?
Undignified, to say the least!

And do ya remember what happened to her 'cuz she frowned? NO KIDS!

So, can we then say that it's Biblical to say that if you don't dance at least once in your life, you won't have any kids? :P

Totally J/K!

And do ya remember what happened to her 'cuz she frowned? NO KIDS! So, can we then say that it's Biblical to say that if you don't dance at least once in your life, you won't have any kids? :P Totally J/K!

LOLLOLLOLLOL!!!!

More like: if you frown once in your life you won't have kids. (was the "just kidding" pun intentional, Sam?)

LOL!

seriously how do you come up with this stuff?

I knew that if I ever posted on the Theology forums I would get in some weird discussion…

It forms spontaneously in the organ in his head called a brain. ;)

Is that what it's called?

I didn't expect you to know that. ;) lol jk

It is unless you're Ancient Egyptian. Then it's called your heart. (Seriously!)

Lol

James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted "I am tempted by God" for God cannot be tempted by evil nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

Just thinking of that in context to "God is surrounded by dark clouds, therefore I listen to dark music." No, our blindness is what clouds God from our sight. The music is a wonderful example of our blindness. God is not evil!

Hmmm… I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to say… What music is an example of our blindness?

Rock music, etc. are a reflection of our blindness, which is the darkness that surrounds God.

What makes rock music in particular a reflection of blindness?

When I listen to someone sing, "Bless the Lord, oh my soul. Oh my soul, worship His holy Name. Sing like never before, oh my soul! Worship His holy Name," even when it's accompanied by a drumbeat, the last thing that comes to my mind is blindness. =/

It doesn't have to make sense, if it somehow fits in with someone's argument, and it's sentimental/witty/etc, (which that analogy isn't) it will be used.

What makes rock music in particular a reflection of blindness?/

Perhaps this isn't even her argument, but one she got from someone else. Either way, Noah's post still applies.

hey…we need to listen to the Holy Spirit….dont pick on what the HS is teaching other people :D

Sam, you got it completely right (especially the last part ;) I've heard those kinds of arguments so many times.

if someone has a standard higher than you they are a legalist
if someone has a standard lower than you they are a liberal……….

That doesn't really leave much wiggle room, does it?

Is that directed at me poisonally?

It's that it's taken from evil, Satanic cults.

No, it's my own argument, and I've never heard that one before.

And that is the dumbest song ever. I have friends who like CCM, and even they think it's ahem strange. :D

Also, drums are just stressful, everything else aside…

Eph 4:17

This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,

And that is the dumbest song ever. I have friends who like CCM, and even they think it's *ahem* strange. :D

Wait, wait, wait…. what? The "Bless the Lord, oh my soul" song is strange and dumb? Are you kidding me? Please tell me I misunderstood you.

Okay, tell me what you think of this one:

He became sin, who knew no sin
That we might become His righteousness
He humbled himself and carried the cross

Love so amazing, love so amazing

Jesus Messiah, name above all names
Blessed redeemer, Emmanuel
The rescue for sinners, the ransom from Heaven
Jesus Messiah, Lord of all

His body the bread, his blood the wine
Broken and poured out all for love
The whole earth trembled, and the veil was torn

All I hope is in You, all I hope is in You
All the glory to You, God, the light of the world

Also. Could you please explain how drums are from evil, Satanic cults?

EXACTLY!!!
not to you personally….just remember that everyone always thinks that they are at the right level….not too many rules not too many secular things…..

"Bless the Lord, Oh My Soul," aka "Ten Thousand Reasons?" I love that song!

If you just read the words to that song, as with many other songs, I don't think there's any way it could be called strange and dumb. Seriously, if you listen to it, I don't think you could call it that either.

It's that it's taken from evil, Satanic cults.

So..................anything used by evil cults is bad? Even their instruments? Why stop there? If they eat meat, should we not eat meat? If they use the Internet as a way of spreading their ministry, should we not use the Internet?

No, it's my own argument, and I've never heard that one before.

No wonder.

And that is the dumbest song ever.<blockquote First off, that was nice. Second off, that's your opinion.

I have friends who like CCM, and even they think it's *ahem* strange. :D

Are you sure that the song is the one that's strange?

Also, drums are just stressful, everything else aside...

Also, your opinion. You don't like it, you don't listen to it. You don't need to join the legions of haters that we already have in the Interwebs.

I think I didn't word that quite right :)

Some of the way the words are put together in the verses do not make sense. The chorus is fine, wordwise. and of course, that's definitely not the worst song in the world. If that makes sense :P

The words to that song sound great. But are you putting it to the world's style of music? It is hypocritical to take good words and put them into the style of the world.

The world isn't going to sit up and listen if we sound just the same as them. It's not going to 'catch their attention' ant more than anything else. There is a reason that 80% of the people in today's churches are not true believers. They just came to the free rock concert.

And about the drums. The drums themselves are not evil. It is the way they are used. The rock beat goes directly against a natural beat. It was and is still used to worship Satan. And the people who invented rock music did not do that by accident. They researched heavily for years, and were taught how to use those beats by the drummers for those cults.

It's that it's taken from evil, Satanic cults.

So..................anything used by evil cults is bad? Even their instruments? Why stop there? If they eat meat, should we not eat meat? If they use the Internet as a way of spreading their ministry, should we not use the Internet? It's not the instruments, again. I have nothing against drums, except that they worsen my headaches :) it's the way that they are used. In the same way, I hope you're not using the Internet in the same way that they would!

No, it's my own argument, and I've never heard that one before.

No wonder. Huh?

And that is the dumbest song ever.<blockquote First off, that was nice. Second off, that's your opinion. Sorry, that wasn't very nice.

I have friends who like CCM, and even they think it's *ahem* strange. :D

Are you sure that the song is the one that's strange? You're right. They're homeschoolers, too. Maybe I should rethink that argument...

Also, drums are just stressful, everything else aside...

Also, your opinion. You don't like it, you don't listen to it. You don't need to join the legions of haters that we already have in the Interwebs. ???

Actually…. now that you mention it, the verses to that song are pretty weird. I do not know why I haven't noticed that before. I think everyone just loves it because of the worshipful chorus. So I apologize, you were right on that point.

What defines the world's style of music? Just because an unsaved person was the first to use a particular type of beat means that it can only be used by the world? I would bet that an unsaved person may have been the first to paint a portrait. Does that mean we should never have painted portraits? No, that makes no sense. Yes, many musicians use rock music for evil. But that doesn't mean that it cannot be redeemed to glorify God. In fact, to do so is to paint a picture of God's redemption of His people: He took something that was rebellious and evil and changed it to glorify Himself. I don't think it's wrong to follow that pattern.

There is nothing inherently evil in any beat, any instrument, any rhythm. It is all about the intentions and the content. If a musician's intent is to glorify God, and his lyrics come directly from Scripture, although he may use a rock beat, I honestly cannot comprehend how you see that as blind and rebellious.

Since when is the intention of making Christian music to make the world "sit up and listen" and "catch their attention"? The purpose of our music is to glorify God and build up His church. Few things build me up more than listening to good, solid music – no matter what the genre! We can learn about God and worship God through any genre, and He is glorified. The point is not to get the world to like our music; the point is to use the means that we have to bring praise and honor to God's Name.

What defines the world's style of music? Just because an unsaved person was the first to use a particular type of beat means that it can only be used by the world? I would bet that an unsaved person may have been the first to paint a portrait. Does that mean we should never have painted portraits? No, that makes no sense. Yes, many musicians use rock music for evil. But that doesn't mean that it cannot be redeemed to glorify God. In fact, to do so is to paint a picture of God's redemption of His people: He took something that was rebellious and evil and changed it to glorify Himself. I don't think it's wrong to follow that pattern. No, but those particular drumbeats have beat used for thousands of years to worship Satan. Since when is the intention of making Christian music to make the world "sit up and listen" and "catch their attention"? The purpose of our music is to glorify God and build up His church. Few things build me up more than listening to good, solid music -- no matter what the genre! We can learn about God and worship God through any genre, and He is glorified. The point is not to get the world to like our music; the point is to use the means that we have to bring praise and honor to God's Name.

Since the evolution of CCM. That was the original purpose- to attract people to the churches. There was a meeting of several wellknown and since fallen church leaders in the late 1950s, and the whole goal of the meeting was to figure out how to attract more people, and especially young people to the church. In the end, they decided that they should use what the young people are listening to in the church. Since when have we been supposed to do what the young people think we should do?

No, but those particular drumbeats have beat used for thousands of years to worship Satan.

Evidence for this bold statement, please?

Since the evolution of CCM. That was the original purpose- to attract people to the churches. There was a meeting of several wellknown and since fallen church leaders in the late 1950s, and the whole goal of the meeting was to figure out how to attract more people, and especially young people to the church. In the end, they decided that they should use what the young people are listening to in the church. Since when have we been supposed to do what the young people think we should do?

I don't claim to support this way of thinking. I shared with you my reasoning for why a person should be able to use any kind of music for the glory of God. You did not address my arguments; you merely presented the wrong actions of a group of people who obviously discredited themselves. I have heard multiple Christian artists specifically say that they make their music for the church, to edify God's people. They are not worshiping Satan, they are not trying to attract the world. They are using their God-given musical abilities to further His glory.

No, but those particular drumbeats have beat used for thousands of years to worship Satan.

Evidence for this bold statement, please? My own puny research? I don't claim to support this way of thinking. I shared with you my reasoning for why a person should be able to use any kind of music for the glory of God. You did not address my arguments; you merely presented the wrong actions of a group of people who obviously discredited themselves. I have heard multiple Christian artists specifically say that they make their music for the church, to edify God's people. They are not worshiping Satan, they are not trying to attract the world. They are using their God-given musical abilities to further His glory.

This kind of music would not be considered if it wasn't trying to attract the world. It is the world's music. If people want to listen to it, that's fine. I'm not going to. But we shouldn't be worshiping God with it. It has terrible associations. Would the disciples use music in which the beat was Satanic? I don't think so.

Even if there aren't drums involved, the beat is written in a backwards way, against the natural beat. Which is why I won't sing most CCM songs even a capella.

My own puny research?

Well, at least you're honest. =P

This kind of music would not be considered if it wasn't trying to attract the world. It is the world's music. If people want to listen to it, that's fine. I'm not going to. But we shouldn't be worshiping God with it. It has terrible associations. Would the disciples use music in which the beat was Satanic? I don't think so. Even if there aren't drums involved, the beat is written in a backwards way, against the natural beat. Which is why I won't sing most CCM songs even a capella.

Well, I guess my question would be, what is your definition of this "backwards way" or the "natural beat"?

Well, at least you're honest. =P

Thank you. But the beats are the beats from people particularly in Africa, and it was used by the witch doctors in their ceremonies.

Well, I guess my question would be, what is your definition of this "backwards way" or the "natural beat"?

Well, in typical 4/4 time, the beat is ONE two THREE four, where rock music has changed it to one TWO three FOUR.

Also, on the issue of using CCM in church, should not Christians be able to worship together with one style that doesn't go against anyone's conscience?

About an earlier comment that rap/rock being the most organized form of music, what is today's American culture like? Is it orderly, 'peaceable, gentle'? No, today's culture is loud, noisy, rebbelious. And the music of a culture reflects the attitude.

Sorry to interrupt your conversation, Christian and Dani, but what do you all think of "Until the Whole World Hears" by Casting Crowns? It's got great lyrics about spreading the gospel, but it also has a lot of drums and electric guitars. In reference to Dani's earlier post, the beat can be either ONE two THREE four or one TWO three FOUR, depending on how fast you count it. I'm looking forward to hearing what you all think!