Can you lose your salvation?

I don't see how we can possibly choose life in light of verses like these:

John 15:16: "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you."

Jeremiah 13:23: "Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then also you can do good who are accustomed to do evil." [So if a leopard is able to change his spots, then sinners are able to choose God.]

Romans 9:15-16, 18: "For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. . . . So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills."

Romans 11:5: "So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace."

Matthew 11:27: "All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."

Isaiah 1:9: "If the LORD of hosts had not left us a few survivors, we should have been like Sodom, and become like Gomorrah." [Notice who left the few survivors.]

Psalm 135:4: "For the LORD has chosen Jacob for himself, Israel as his own possession."

Psalm 132:13: "For the LORD has chosen Zion; he has desired it for his dwelling place:"

1 Thessalonians 1:4-5a: "For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction."

By the way, here's what the 1599 Geneva Bible says in the notes about Deuteronomy 30:19b, "Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,":
"That is, love and obey God; which is not in man's power, but only God's Spirit works it in his elect."

ISC - What about when Joshua says, "Choose you this day whom you will serve" or when Christ says, "Come to me"? Don't some choose life, and receive it?

Jesus Said "if ANY man WILL come after let HIM deny himself and take up his cross and follow me"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that WHOSOEVER,
Some versus that support the other view point.
But let us strive for the truth in all situations.

And now we're back to the Free Will Vs. Predestination subject. I love it! Of course, if you are a true Christian and follow God's commandments, you're not going to just outright say one day "I don't want to follow the Lord anymore. I think I'm gonna go sin" No. That's why the devil makes it sneaky. He'll make it seem like it is okay to do certain things that aren't specifically stated against in the Bible such as smoking. Like you said your flesh is still struggling with your spirit. Plus, temptation still exists. I believe it is possible for a true believer to be tempted and sin, yet still be a true believer. Now if he repents and goes back and keeps doing it over and over again, he is living in willful sin and, according to the Bible, it is impossible for him to be redeemed again. To your second point on the devil tempting Christians, that's where FAITH comes in. Faith in Jesus Christ is what gives you assurance. In response to the John 6:39 scripture, if you read the immediate verse following you will see he also says And this is the will of him that sent me, that everyone which sees the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. I don’t quite remember where in the Bible it says this but I think it said that it is also God’s will that ALL should not perish and that ALL should have eternal life. We obviously know this is not going to happen. God loves every single person on this planet and he wishes that none should perish, but He knows that some of us will choose death instead of life. Oh yea and I wouldn’t consider God a loser because some people fall away. I would be thankful that I know he will help me through the hard times and get back up on my feet again.

My previous post is edited.

"Man a trinity. That the human soul and spirit are not identical is proved by the facts that they are divisible. Heb 4:12 and that soul and spirit are sharply distinguished in the burial and resurrection of the body. It is sown a natural body (soma psuchikon= "soul-body"), it is raised a spiritual body (soma pneumatikon). 1Cor 15:44. To assert, therefore, that there is no difference between soul and spirit is to assert that there is no difference between the mortal body and the resurrection body. In Scripture use, the distinction between spirit and soul may be traced. Briefly, that distinction is that the spirit is that part of man which "knows" 1Cor 2:11 his mind; the soul is the seat of the affections, desires, and so of the emotions, and of the active will, the self. "My soul is exceeding sorrowful" Mt 26:38 see also Mt 11:29 Jn 12:27. The word transliterated "soul" in the O.T. (nephesh) is the exact equivalent of the N.T. word for soul (Gr. psuche), and the use of "soul" in the O.T. is identical with the use of that word in the N.T. (see, e.g.) Dt 6:5 14:26 1Sam 18:1 20:4,17 Job 7:11,15 14:22 Ps 42:6 84:2. The N.T. word for spirit (pneuma) like the O.T. (ruach), is trans. "air", "breath", "wind," but predominantly "spirit," whether of God (e.g.) Gen 1:2 Mt 3:16 or of man Gen 41:8 1Cor 5:5. Because man is "spirit" he is capable of God-consciousness, and of communication with God Job 32:8 Ps 18:28 Prov 20:27 because he is "soul" he has self- consciousness Ps 13:2 42:5,6,11 because he is "body" he has, through his senses, world consciousness."
This is from KJV Scoffield study Bible.

Its our spirit which God put as His candle(Pro 20:27) in us that is dead in sin before we are born again.
Soul has the capability to choose.( See Deut 30:19; Josh 24:15)

God's Word is always true and it endures forever.
It never contradicts itself. Its infallible.

I'm not in for an argument. A born again believer has the Holy Spirit as a teacher, comforter and as an earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

And one has a choice - whether he can will to obey His teaching and be blessed or cannot will to obey what He says ie, disobey and face the consequences. God knew beforehand who will be willing to obey and who will not.

I'll reply to myself. All I was looking for is that we affirm that man does have to make a choice. There is something called hyper-Calvinism that basically rejects this and says we shouldn't even bother to preach the gospel and tell others to repent, turn to Jesus, and receive life, because it's all God's doing and man shouldn't do anything.

I don't understand what its meant to be concluded by giving the topic "Free Will vs Predestination".

I think unless one chooses to trust in the only Saviour and the Lord Jesus Christ willingly, its impossible to even know that he was ordained before the foundation of the world.
Eph 1: 4 - 6
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Alex, its true that man has the responsibility to make choice. That's the reason I chose to answer now. He is responsible for his choice in his believing Jesus, the Son of God or rejecting to believe. (John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.)
God wants us to believe His Word, the whole of it.
In Matt 28:18-20
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:Teaching them to Observe things whatsoever I have commanded you : and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

EDIT: Hyper-Calvinism or any other that does not have divine authority ie, against the Word of God needs to be rejected.

I was just reffering to the fact that we were talking a little more about the choice of salvation.

So do you still want me to reply? I could - but it would take a while to type up. :P

If you're asking if you should reply to her trichotomist view that humans are made of body, soul, and spirit, please do! I'm on pins and needles to hear what you have to say! :D

I don't have much time to write a big long comment about this whole discussion, but I did have a question for those of you who believe one can lose your salvation – believing this thing (losing your salvation) would you say that person once again gets back their stony heart after they lose their salvation (Ezekiel 36:24-27)? Also, you wouldn't believe that Christ forgives our sins - past, present and future - because there couldn't be a sinner that has forgiven (future) sins? I'm sorry if some of this doesn't make sense, I'll try to explain better when I have more time.

Curious for your answers. Thanks.

No, actually I meant reply to Alex.
But if you want me to reply to the whole trichotomist thing… I decline. (For now, anyway.) But then again, I've heard some bad things about Scofield. Is he trustworthy?? Maybe someone here knows more about him than me…

Changes his mind
Scofield alluded to Proverbs 20:27, so I'll post what Matthew Henry said about it:
"We have here the dignity of the soul, the great soul of man, that light which lighteth every man. 1. It is a divine light; it is the candle of the Lord, a candle of his lighting, for it is the inspiration of the Almighty that gives us understanding. He forms the spirit of man within him. It is after the image of God that man is created in knowledge. Conscience, that noble faculty, is God’s deputy in the soul; it is a candle not only lighted by him, but lighted for him. The Father of spirits is therefore called the Father of lights. 2. It is a discovering light. By the help of reason we come to know men, to judge of their characters, and dive into their designs; by the help of conscience we come to know ourselves. The spirit of a man has a self-consciousness (1 Cor. 2:11); it searches into the dispositions and affections of the soul, praises what is good, condemns what is otherwise, and judges of the thoughts and intents of the heart. This is the office, this the power, of conscience, which we are therefore concerned to get rightly informed and to keep void of offence."
He really explains it well, and uses the words 'soul' and 'spirit' interchangeably. (As does Wesley, but I won't quote him for obvious reasons.)

Scofield also alluded to Job 32:8 as well. I think he ripped it out of context: "And Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite answered and said: “I am young in years, and you are aged; therefore I was timid and afraid to declare my opinion to you. I said, ‘Let days speak, and many years teach wisdom.’ But it is the spirit in man, the breath of the Almighty, that makes him understand. It is not the old who are wise, nor the aged who understand what is right. Therefore I say, ‘Listen to me; let me also declare my opinion.’ "
Ahhh. Much better. Elihu was simply stating that not just old people are wise, because every man has knowledge. Ahhh.

His allusion to Psalm 18:28 doesn't make much sense. My apologies, but I can't seem to find a translation that even has the word soul or spirit in that verse - not even the Message!

Besides, do I need something to be God-conscious other than a body and soul? The body's senses tell us about God: Romans 1:20: "For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse."
Our soul seems to be very able to be God-conscious as well. (Psalm 42:1-2; 62:1)

Wow! I just discovered this in the Reformation Study Bible about Hebrews 4:12:
"Though some find support here for the view that a human being is basically a trichotomy consisting of body, soul, and spirit, the context is against it. It stresses the power of God’s word to enter the deepest recesses of a person’s being, and not a sort of division into constituent parts. Also, if the idea of division were intended, we would expect the author to say “bone and marrow” instead of “joints and of marrow.” "

I think I'll be done now.

What did I do…scare everyone off with my comment? I'd really like to hear answers, when one of y'all has time to comment :)

I agree with your point, Bethany. You can't get the old, stone heart back after God's given you a new heart.

However, something that people often say against this point is that that passage was only referring to Israelites. Some people–mostly Arminians–would say that they don't see evidence that we receive a new heart when we're saved, so there's no new heart to lose when we "lose our salvation." We just walk away from it and that's that.

That still doesn't make much sense though. :P

You're right….that doesn't make sense.

"Ahhhhhh." "I'm Scared." :) Well maybe you did scare everyone off with that comment but is it really so wrong to say that you would get back your stony heart? You said that Christ forgives your sins past present and Future. What if we don't Confess our sins? 1 John 1:9?
What if some one that is saved Blatantly Denies God existence, Will he go to Heaven? What about Demas? What about Annaias and Saffria? What about Jonah? What about Judas? What about Lot's wife?

Yes, what about all those people? What do they have to do with anything? They were either false believers (Judas, Ananias and Sapphira, and maybe Lot's wife) or believers who made sinful choices (Jonah and maybe Lot's wife). And I do think that Bethany's question should make you ponder; why would God change our hearts at all if He knew that we were just going to make them stony again? It doesn't make sense to me.

I think that you cannot be saved unless you confess your sins. Hold on though! By asking Christ to save us, we are necessarily confessing that we are sinners.
About all those people, I agree with SBG.

Why did God make Adam and Eve if he knew they were gonna disobey him?

Oh and about Adam and Eve, before they sinned they were going to live forever, then they sinned and they were going to die.
So couldn't you say that they "lost" their salvation?

Lost their salvation? Did they have to be saved from anything at that time? No, they did not lose their salvation; they lost the intimate fellowship with God that they had previously enjoyed. And the reason that God made Adam and Eve even though He knew they were going to disobey Him is because He knew He would be glorified through their salvation! The whole reason that God created everything is so that He would be glorified. By the way, are you saying that you don't believe God knew that Adam and Eve would disobey Him? Or were you just asking that for the sake of argument?

It was a rhetorical question

The reason God Changed their Heart in the first place is so that He would be glorified. And the reason God let them change their heart back is so that they could have a free will. Otherwise They would be Just puppets. I will reiterate what I said in the beginning You say that "if your truly saved you won't turn away, so if someone turns away then they really weren't saved" I say that if someone turns away that was saved then they lost their salvation. So we both end up with the same conclusion but we go a different way to prove it.

Adam and Eve started with an intimate fellowship with God. They disobeyed. And thus the whole human race was thrown into a life of death, sin and misery. God has planned everything out. He knows what will happen days, weeks, months and years from now. If we had free will and could choose things then God would not know what would happen. God controls everything. He is over everything. If we had free will we would be in control of things. God is in control and he uses us for his glory. Since you say that man has free will in effect you are saying that man is in control of different aspects and men can choose who different things will go. That is NOT true. God has decided beforehand what will happen and he brings it about so that it happens. Please interpret this passage for me: "For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ," ~ 1 Thessalonians 5:9

I hope that that all makes sense and that I did not come across harsh…because I wasn't trying to be harsh at all.

As to your other statement:
"You say that "if your truly saved you won't turn away, so if someone turns away then they really weren't saved" I say that if someone turns away that was saved then they lost their salvation. So we both end up with the same conclusion but we go a different way to prove it."

I have some questions I would like to ask you:

1. If people can truly be saved and then lose their salvation then Jesus is a loser and savior, right? Jesus loses some of his people?
2. In Hebrews 5:9 it says, "And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him," If people can lose their salvation how is it eternal?

No You didn't sound harsh at all, and I hope I don't either. :)
You Said "If we had free will and could choose things then God would not know what would happen." I do not agree with that statement, It is like throwing a ball we can throw it any way we wish but God knows which way we are going to throw it. Make sense?

Yes, man does control certain things, But God can always override our control but if he did, than we would not have a free will.

Okay Hypothetical situation here for you, if I understand you correctly your saying that we can't escape the will of God. Right? So now your a christian and I'm sure you would agree with me that Christians still sin. Right? So did God Make you Sin? PLEASE ANSWER. If God make you do everything than when you sin God "makes" you do it. Right?
I do not think God makes People Sin.

1 thess. 5:9 is like 2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Again that verse says that God's will is that NOONE will perish, but we know that some will so apparently God's will won't be fulfilled.

Question #1. "Jesus loses some of his people" I would say that some people lose Jesus.

Question #2 at the end of Heb. 5:9 it says "to all who obey him." What if they don't obey him?

Again I hope I didn't sound too harsh, it is just the fact that I love (emphasis on love) debates.
Your brother In Christ
Caleb
P.S. I know my Puncutation is terrible

What is so terrible about not having a free will? What is so terrible about God changing us without our permission and keeping us without our permission? If it were up to us, no one would be saved! We would all love living in our sin and would never choose God!

As for whether or not God makes us sin, I would answer with a resounding, "No!" When an unbeliever sins, it is because he is a slave to sin. When a Christian sins, it is because some of the "old man" remains in him. God does not sin, nor does he tempt us to do so (see James 1:13-14). Our sinning has nothing to do with our "free will" to do what we please.

And of course it is God's will that none should perish; but God's will is not "unfulfilled" because some are not saved. God's revealed will and His sovereign will are two different things; His revealed will is what He has shown us in Scripture, and His sovereign will is what He has known for eternity that He will carry out. God expresses His desire in Scripture to see all saved, but He has decided, for His own reasons, that He will let some remain in their sins. Whether a person is saved or not, they will glorify God in one way or another for eternity–either in heaven or in hell.

You said, "I would say that some people lose Jesus." But that still makes Jesus a loser. If He is holding on to us, and then some way down the road He is no longer holding on, it doesn't matter who initiated the loosening of the grip; Jesus is still the loser.

You asked, "What if they don't obey him?" If they don't obey Him, they go to hell. That was easy enough.

In your previous post, you mentioned that we both see the same thing happening (people who seem to be believers turning away from the faith) and come up with different conclusions, taking our own separate routes to prove it. But I would argue that you are going on a route that is illogical and not supported by Scripture, so you really haven't proved anything. Please come up with some solid evidence for me.

Hang on i'm going to eat supper first. :)

No problem. I'll wait. ;D

Carissa: "If people can truly be saved and then lose their salvation then Jesus is a loser and savior, right? Jesus loses some of his people?"
I think the answer to this question lies in 1 Timothy 4:10: "God…is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."
God saves everybody whether or not they believe. However, the people who choose to disbelieve do not receive the benefits because they outright refused.
Anyway, on the other hand, if man does not have a choice in his salvation, Jesus loses some of His people? Purposely? To me that's even more appalling than Jesus losing His people because they refused to be saved.

Wait a minute. Everybody is saved from their sins, but some don't go to heaven? Here's what I think that verse means: God offers salvation to all, and He saves all who come to Him. He does not save everyone. Unless you mean that He saves them from something other than their sins… Which is not biblical…

Who is doing the initial working in salvation? God. He changes our wills so we want to come, and do come. That's salvation, and it is initiated by God alone. (We love Him because He first loved us [1 John 4])
The foundation of our salvation is God's work in us, not our work in response to Him. We were regenerated by Him, then we responded in faith. God chose, then we chose back, and the first choice (God's) is the foundation of our salvation, not our own.
So if a person can one day be saved, and the next day not be saved, it would necessarily mean that God did the losing. Because He did the saving, He would also have to do the losing. That's impossible. God has given us His Spirit, and He will not take Him away.

We didn't do the work to got us into union with Christ. So neither can we do any work that will get us out of union with Christ. (IOW, you can't lose your salvation.)

[This doesn't mean that we can do what we want, because if you're in union to Christ, you're a slave to righteousness (Romans 6); and slaves to righteousness don't do whatever they want…they present their members as instruments for righteousness. ]

You can't lose what you didn't do the work to get, because the One who did the work on your behalf is holding tightly to your hand, and He will never let you go.

The people around us who we see falling away from the faith are one of two types of people:

1. They were never Christians in the first place. (They came out FROM us, but they were not OF us (paraphrase from Paul from one of the Corinthians, I believe; sorry that I don't have exact references).
   Or….
2. They are Christians in a backsliding state who will return to Christ (David and Peter are excellent examples).

Matthew: I believe that 1 Timothy 4:10 is an example of an unclear text which we must use other much clearer texts of Scripture to interpret. The Bible does not contradict itself, and there are many very clear texts that disagree with the interpretation you offered: those supporting election, particular redemption, etc. Sorry I don't have any examples on hand. I'll just give a simple argument in answer to that interpretation. I will offer two different situations and see which one agrees with scripture. On the cross, Jesus Christ took the punishment of the sins of every single person who ever lived (your view). Some choose to except this salvation. Others reject it. Those others that reject it are punished (whether in hell forever or annihilated we disagree; but that doesn't matter for this illustration). So Christ took those unsaved people's sins once, on the cross, and then they themselves took the punishment in their own bodies and souls. This requires that God punishes the same sins twice. That is impossible. God is Just, and cannot deny Himself.
Second situation: On the cross, Jesus Christ took the punishment of His ELECT only (sorry for the caps). In time, God, through His Word (gospel; outward call) and Spirit (inward, effectual, irresistible call), brings those elect people into union with Christ by regenerating them (to which regeneration they all immediately respond with faith).
Those who are not elect, and for whom Christ did not die, will be punished for their own sins. God punishes the sins of the elect in Christ, and the sins of the reprobate in themselves. He doesn't punish the same sins twice and retains His integrity and justice.

The second situation agrees with Scripture, and the first does not. So we must seek a different interpretation for 1 Tim. 4:10

Perhaps "all men" means all KINDS of men? But that doesn't make sense why the "specially" part would be there.

Here are some Questions I would like to ask you that I don't seem to be getting any answer for.

1. Are we Puppets?
2. Can we get out of the will of God?

You said: "You asked, "What if they don't obey him?" If they don't obey Him, they go to hell. That was easy enough." That is exactly what I'm trying to tell you. If someone who is a Christian doesn't obey Christ's Commands than he goes to hell.

Actually that is not what I said, I said we come up with the SAME conclusion but we went about different ways to get it.

Solid Proof Please Read this Article
http://www.brfwitness.org/?p=340

Why do we need to witness if the elect will already be saved in the end?

@Caleb – You ask "why do we need to witness if the elect will already be saved in the end?" It's because God uses means in this world to bring others to Him. Someone might come to know the Lord through the preaching of someone else.

Technically though the elect will be saved in the end no matter what, so I don't need to witness any more.

That is not what I believe, but that is how I see your point of view.

We know that all the elect will be saved in the end but how will they be saved is more the question. God has Christians witness to them, give them a Bible, etc…

John 3:16 (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Greek Word for Whosoever.
Greek Word: ???
Transliteration: pas
Phonetic Pronunciation:pas
Root: including all the forms of declension
Cross Reference: TDNT - 5:886,795
Part of Speech: adj
Vine's Words: All, Every, Everyone, Everything, Whole, Wholly, Wholesome

Usage Notes:

English Words used in KJV:
all 748
all things 170
every 117
all men 41
whosoever 31
everyone 28
whole 12
all manner of 11
every man 11
no + 9 every thing 7 any 7 whatsoever 6 whosoever + + 3 always + 3 daily + 2 any thing 2 no + 2 not tr 7 miscellaneous translations 26 [Total Count: 1243]

including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole :- all (manner of, means), alway (-s), any (one), × daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), × thoroughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.

Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

Looks Like it means EVERYONE to me. If you interpret this verse differently please tell me.

I have read through the article and disagree with it.

Robert D. Kettering said:
"Today’s topic deals with the teaching of eternal security or the doctrine of once -saved -always-saved. Put another way, eternal security means that when a person accepts Christ as Savior and Lord and experiences the new birth, nothing can take the promise of eternal life away from that person regardless of whether or not he or she is living a holy life or has backslidden. Even if a person who was once saved, later comes to deny Christ, yet he is saved regardless, so say the persons who hold to the doctrine of eternal security."

That is not what I am saying…at all. Once a person has been saved and given a new heart then Jesus can never lose them. They will always be saved. But if someone professes to be saved and then they later deny Christ then it shows they were not really saved. In Matthew 7 it says that you shall know them by their fruits. If someone has no fruits showing that means they can't be saved.

"Those who teach “eternal security,” emphasize the passages of encouragement for the Christian, but usually ignore the passages of warning, and the Scriptures which set forth the conditions of discipleship. Advocates of eternal security say very little about Hebrews 5:9, John 8:31, 1 John 2:24, 1 Timothy 4:16, and 2 Peter 1:10."

The passages of warning are not to continue being saved. We cannnot keep ourselves alive…God has to do it. It is live physically without God keeping us alive. We can't do it. Much less can we keep ourselves alive spiritually without God. Those passages say to keep watch on ourselves and to examine ourselves to make sure that we truly are saved. If we are living in sin and show no fruit of godliness then we can not be saved. Thus we are warned to make sure that we are truly saved.

In answer to your questions:

1. "Are we puppets" God is in control. He is over everything we do. as SBG said, "Why is it so terrible to not have a free will." We are humans and there has to be someone stronger than us to control things. If there wasn't then everything would fall apart. God is in control and he has decided the entire course of events beforehand.
2. "Can you get out of the will of God" No!! God's will is sovereign. As SBG said, "God's revealed will and God's sovereign will are different." We can never get out of God's sovereign will. He is always governing things.

Oh one more thing about the passages of warning.

“I make known to you the gospel, by which also you are saved if you hold fast the word which I preached unto you” NASB (1 Cor. 15:1-2).
That person took that verse out of context!!! They are taking it as a warning but in reality it is not.

Paul has told these people about the gospel and he says that they have to hold fast to it. He is not saying that they are saved and if they don't hold fast to it they lose their salvation. No! Let's look at the verse again,

"I make known to you the gospel, by which also you are saved IF you hold fast to the word which I preached unto you" Notice the IF. If you don't hold fast to the Word it shows you weren't saved and so one of the evidences of if you are saved is that you have to hold fast to the Word.

“For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end” (Hebrews 3:14). Again the same issue.
"We are made partakers IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end." If we don't have assurance and we have no evidence of godliness then we were never saved.

It is the same issue with all the passages. That person misread the passages to fit his idea. When in reality they did not say that. These passages are warnings to consider ourselves and make sure we truly are saved. They are not saying that we can be saved and if we don't hold fast the word, or have our confidence steadfast we then lose our salvation.

Sorry, I just saw another thing that I want to address:
In the article it said this:
"But to willfully persist in sin, to turn one’s back on God, to ignore the sincere confession of sin – may eventually destroy saving faith and place us outside the provision of salvation."

It that person had saving faith and then they turned their back on God and turned away. Would they have destroyed the SAVING faith or did they just show that they were not truly saved? If they truly had SAVING faith then they should not have lost their SAVING faith. Was it truly SAVING faith?

Sorry that this comment is so long :D

crying I accidentally exited before I posted my post. :(
I will try to retype.

So are you saying that a person isn't saved if he is Godless but he is saved if he is Godly? Are you saying that if you are saved and then you start living in sin, then you really mustn't have been saved? Or are you saying that is not possible?

Now addressing your answer to my questions.

If God really makes us do everything (and if he doesn't then we can do stuff by ourselves and then we really have free will) then when a we sin (SBG said "When a Christian sins, it is because some of the "old man" remains in him." I assume you agree with him and me that Christians still sin.) God must have made us sin. But SBG said "As for whether or not God makes us sin, I would answer with a resounding, "No!"" And if we can never get out of God's sovereign will then when we sin it must have been God's sovereign will for us to sin. Are you going to say that it is God's will for us to sin?

As for your last comment.
Would they have destroyed the SAVING faith or did they just show that they were not truly saved? I would say they lost it, you would say that they weren't really saved.
You said "If they truly had SAVING faith then they should not have lost their SAVING faith." I disagree.
Can you please define "saving faith" in your own words.

Caleb

Okay, I'll address two of the questions you brought up. You asked why we should bother to witness to anyone if the elect will be saved whether or not we preach to them. Here's my answer: God tells us to do it! He has commanded us to preach to others so that they will be saved; He uses us as instruments to carry out His will.

Your second question was how we can say that only some will be saved when the Bible seems to say that everyone is saved. But you are not reading those passages correctly at all. Look at John 3:16, for example, and the answer to your question is obvious. The verse says that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH in Him will not perish but will have eternal life. It does not say simply "whoever." Only those who believe will be saved. It's really quite simple.

Also, I'll address one more question of yours. You asked again (though I thought I had answered this question earlier) whether or not we are God's puppets. No. We are willing servants; but He has made us to be so. But, as I said before, what is wrong with God making us His servants without our permission? If He waited for our permission, we'd all go to hell!

ISC, I think I forgot to mention this important thing – that notes from Scoffield study Bible are given for the word “whole” in 1 Thess 5:23
"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Its true that man (2 Corin 4:16)has body(outward man) and soul and spirit(inward man). Whether “in the body” or “out of the body”, Scripture never refers to a separation or parting between spirit and soul. The body may be separated from both, but spirit and soul do not part. It is true that the Word of God is “sharp and powerful” enough to “divide asunder” the two, and it does this in that it enables us to understand the differences between the two, the functions of each, their origin and relationship. But Man is revealed as a unity of spirit and soul, and he is never viewed apart as spirit only or as soul only. We can only understand reference to the soul in its Scriptural relationship with the spirit of man, and we can only understand references to the spirit of man in its Scriptural relationship with the soul.

The higher part of Man is the spirit of Man which has been created in the image of God and accordingly it is that part of Man which is like God in personality and function. It is the spirit of Man that is capable of communing with God, of appreciating and understanding God and of worship (John 4:24). A careful study of the use of the word “spirit” in Scripture as relating to the spirit of Man, shows that it always has reference to that part of Man which controls the understanding, the intelligence and the functions of reasoning and judgment. It is the spirit of Man which is IN the Man that knows the things of the Man. (1 Corin 2:11)

Man is unique in that he has a body and a soul which he shares with all living creatures of the animal kingdom, and a spirit which he shares with the angelic hosts. Man’s soul belongs to a God-breathed spirit life.
The soul is that part of Man which relates the Spirit created, with the body formed, and which continues to exist in relation with the spirit, when the body dies. A study of all the occasions where the soul is referred to in Scripture shows that the soul commands the emotions, affections, desires, the will, and the selecting of right and wrong, loving or hating.

If “mind” characterizes the functions of the spirit, it is “the heart” that characterizes the functions of the Soul. Scripture does not even once refer to “the brain” in the body of Man, nor refer to the “head” in a functional sense. Man’s doings and responsible functions are performed in Scriptural language as from the Mind or the Heart.
So the thing that distinguishes man from the animals is that he has a spirit-soul life as well as a soul-body life and accordingly he IS a moral responsible being.
[The most part of this comment is taken from ‘The Doctrine of immortality’ written by W.G Broadbent, NZ. (He reviews the teaching and declarations of the Word of God, and set in order the vital grounds of the Faith “once delivered unto the saints”, which as Jude tells us, we “should earnestly contend for”(Jude 3).]

–This is only for clarification on 'soul, spirit and body' –though nothing to do with the topic directly.

PS. I don’t know if your referring to some ‘bad things’ about Scoffield implies his life after He was won to Christ or before. If it is before He was saved, we should Not cast a stone. I personally do not use much of the study Bible except for some clear meanings.

COS, I hope this clears your doubt and that Man is a triune.

You said "Only those who believe will be saved. " I agree. But are you saying that only the elect will believe or if you believe you become one of the elect? Or are you saying that God came to earth to save all People (Luke 2:10 (KJV)
10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to ALL people.) but only those that believe will be saved?

You said "We are willing servants; but He has made us to be so."
(I'm still confused) How are we willing if he makes us willing? How can we love him if he make us? How is that true love? And if he doesn't make us love him, then we must be able to love him by ourselves and then we have free will.

You said "You said, "I would say that some people lose Jesus." But that still makes Jesus a loser. If He is holding on to us, and then some way down the road He is no longer holding on, it doesn't matter who initiated the loosening of the grip; Jesus is still the loser."

Please answer my other question. If we can never get out of God's sovereign will then when we sin it must have been God's sovereign will for us to sin. Are you going to say that it is God's will for us to sin?

Only the elect will believe. If you believe it shows that you were one of the elect. In the verse of Luke 2:10 the good tidings will be brought to all people but only those who are elect will believe and be saved.

God changes our hearts and gives us willing hearts to serve him. We have a changed heart thus we love him and is true love because it comes from our hearts…our new hearts.

Here is a verse that show that God does not make us sin.
"Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. 14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death." James 1:13-15

You said: "So are you saying that a person isn't saved if he is Godless but he is saved if he is Godly? Are you saying that if you are saved and then you start living in sin, then you really mustn't have been saved? Or are you saying that is not possible?"
What I am saying is that you have to examine yourself and if you don't see any good fruit and all you see is evil fruit then it maybe that you aren't saved. Thus you need to examine your salvation to make sure that your salvation is not false.

You said: "Would they have destroyed the SAVING faith or did they just show that they were not truly saved? I would say they lost it, you would say that they weren't really saved.
You said "If they truly had SAVING faith then they should not have lost their SAVING faith." I disagree.
Can you please define "saving faith" in your own words."
What I mean by saying saving faith is that everyone is a sinner and then if they are one of the elect they have been changed and given faith…saving faith. A faith that is saving not losing. They can't lose their SAVING faith.

Here are some more thoughts/questions for you:

1. We have a Good Shepherd. He goes after the stray sheep and brings them back. He doesn't lose his sheep. If he lost his sheep (or if they lost him…by your reasoning) then he wouldn't be called a Good Shepherd. If you research about shepherds you will see that their sheep know their voice and follow…they don't leave. Sometimes they stray but the shepherd always goes after them. Why would the earthly shepherds do better to keep their sheep together than Jesus? Please answer how you would refute this.

2. "When you continue in my word than are you truly my disciples." In John 12 we are told that if we continue then we really are his disciples. Thus if someone does not continue in his Word it shows they weren't truly his disciples. In John 6 it says how some of his followers (people who followed him around and thought they were his disciples) left him. Thus by the verse in John 12 it shows that they were never really his disciples. Please answer how you would refute this.

3. Another quick thing is that some people who think that once you are saved you can act horrible, and do horrible things and deny God and still be saved. Just so you know, I do NOT believe that. Most people who just lump all people together who believe the above. Please do NOT lump me in with those people as I do NOT believe that once saved you can sin all the time, etc… Thank you!

4. Another thing about the will of God. In John 7:30 it says that they would kill him but because his time had not come they could not kill him. They were held back by the will of God…the Sovereign will of God. If they had free will they would have killed him before. But God's will was not to have them kill Jesus until later.

So are you saying that when we sin, we sin of our own free will?

I thought that this topic was about if we could lose our salvation…not free will. If you would like I can make another topic for that :D

EDIT: Well, I just made another topic for that :D So if you would like to discuss this I would be happy to do so on the other topic.

Sorry I didn't see the rest of your post up above.
I will go over there to discuss.